GothamSchools — daily independent reporting on NYC public schools

“What makes new teachers leave in such large numbers? The leading researcher on teacher attrition, Richard Ingersoll at the University of Pennsylvania, says job dissatisfaction plays a major role in about two-thirds of all beginning teacher attrition. Asked to elaborate, he says they cite lack of administrative support, poor student discipline, lack of faculty influence, large class sizes and inadequate planning time.”
At some point pay levels may also become a factor.  But the NYC schools have sacrificed and will sacrifice all of the above for the one thing, an incredibly expensive thing, that the UFT polticked and schemed uses its power for decades to get.  Pension increases.

They appear not to have much of an effect on retention then, have they?  Except for the teachers who are retiring earlier.  And that set of priorities is irrevocable for a generation.  And yet there is nothing in the piece that was linked that said “we won, and to hell with you.”

Let’s say we eliminate the library system.  And the bus system.  Close many of the parks, and let them fill with trash. And raise property taxes another 20 percent,  This time that will really make the schools better and the teachers happy, the UFT might say.  And then — whamo, another pension deal.  Won’t be fooled again.

I’m not following the logic.  You reiterate that you “did not come back because of the pension” and then prattle on about how stressful the job is.  You then end stating “I’m not looking for any money, merit pay, raise, etc. that is tied to this evaluation.”  I’m not following, so you’ve earned your pension through your “combat duty” (those active in actual combat zones most likely earn less than a seasoned teacher if they can live to talk about it) but you’re not looking for any money?  I’m a bit confused, are pensions not paid out in money?  So god forbid someone attempts to implement a system that rationalizes the exorbitant amount of public funding that goes into teacher’s pensions and your argument is “I have a stressful job!  The elevators don’t work!”  Why not find another job if you’re so stressed?  Let someone else try to handle it.

What makes teachers leave in such large numbers?
!. The job is the toughest job they will ever do.
2. no support from their administrators.
3. The pay they receive isn’t worth the hours they put in.
4. It really wasn’t what they wanted to do in the first place.
5. Every time they read a newspaper it tells them how bad a job they are doing.
6.They read your comments and have no idea what you are talking about.
7. They read your comments and realize that any other job is appreciated so much more.
8. They all want to be a city planner where you really don’t have to work hard and can spend the day playing on this blog and ignore your regular job.
9. They can move to Florida and spend their parents pension money and really don’t have to work.
 
Larry you will be fooled again and again and you can’t do a thing about it. 

What do you know about Larry? Who cares what anyone hides behind. Has he ever taught? He hides behind his agenda and plays his numbers game. Why is it only teachers and not other union members? He is a shill who ran for public office and lost big time.All those people in Brooklyn saw through his B.S.

 What’s a “Qbert47″ What’s that? A name? Doubt that you are a teacher or you would know that I am telling it like it is. Probably a spy of some sort.  You are clueless about teaching. Maybe you are collecting unemployment?

 I don’t know what’s eating you Accountability. But like I said to Larry. Other people in this town get pensions and there is no problem with it. For example:cops firemen, sanitation MEN etc. Teachers are mostly female so you and the mayor figure that they can be a target. That’s the truth isn’t it? How come I haven’t seen their pensions touched? And by the way money was contributed to the Sandy Relief fund FROM the TEACHER’S pension fund not anyone else’s. Maybe you are looking to get a donation for yourself? The money that we make is blood money but I do not want money tied to the new evaluation because I will not and cannot work any harder than I am now and that goes for everybody in my school including the new teachers. WE DO NOT WANT A LONGER DAY IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM!!!!! Many teachers are going to school after school and at night for their MANDATORY masters degree. Some of us have families, our own kids to take care of etc. How long is the job going to go on for 24 hours?  Go to any school in the morning and watch the teachrs come into school. NOBODY walks in empty handed. Nobody walks in with just their pocketbook. I’m not demanding a parking lot I’m saying that it would be logical to have one don’t you think? That’s why a parking lot would be nice. My trunk is consumed with paperwork, supplies etc.

 Let’s evaluate the working conditions of schools!! I give them an F!! And I have been hearing from other schools about their working conditions. Yes working in certain schools IS “combat duty” I want the mayor to teach for a day in one of them, ALONE!!!

Listen Quentin Cuthbert of the 47 Ronin,

Larry Littlefield faces absolutely no repercussions whatsoever other than ruffled bloggers who don’t really have a direct beef with him. And I think he’s quite proud of sounding an alarm and stating facts as he sees them. No reason for him to hide. Those who work on the front lines for layers of people with highly questionable ethics have very good reason for anonymity and really nothing to gain by unmasking themselves, especially as they speak for so many.

Bottom line:  a huge amount of money was added, which I approved of.  I also agree that when you promise someone a pension when they are hired, that’s an obligation.

But it turns out that all of that money is going to the enormous cost of retroactively enhancing pensions after the fact.  We’re paying more.  But what do we hear?  Yes, that’s what was most important, and we have a so much better and more motivated teaching staff because of it?

No.

We have most of the Mayoral candidates saying the schools are worse, and most “teachers” who post here agree with them. And you have the union claiming teachers resent their jobs, and seek to leave.  You wouldn’t hear that elsewhere.

Gee, maybe we should put less money into retroactive benefits for the retired and soon to be retired, which had been MORE that what other people get, and do something about these other issue?  We can’t!  It’s irrevocable.  And they’ll do it again if they get the chance.  We’ll be cutting pay, especially starting pay and benefits, to fund that retroactive pension deal. It has already been decided and already started, and it is happening for the second time.

So bottom line — the sensible, non-OCD thing to do is to give up on having decent schools in New York City, except perhaps charter schools.  Expect nothing, be grateful if you get anything.  Decide what you have to pay, but don’t expect more for paying more.  That’s the conclusion.

What I don’t want to hear is any assertion that any increase in funding will buy better schools for NYC serfs. I believed that once, but now have the evidence.  And I don’t want to hear the UFT putting out press releases about how bad the schools are without the appropriate “we won!” in them.  They are implying blame for the people of New York.  What, because we didn’t pay enough, or other services got priority, or the state money went elsewhere?  What that was the case I said so.  It is not the case now.

Hey No to Accountability. You claim that you are a tenured teacher? How come you don’t mind NOT having a pension” You have not argued with “your friend Larry” over it. Isn’t HE changing the subject?  Yes teachers do work for a salary health benefits and a pension. We are not going to work for free. We are not going to work for $1 a year like the mayor does. We get a masters degree on our own time plus credits beyond as well and PAY for it. We do plenty on our own time. I’m waiting for our “health benefits” to be attacked soon.

 I don’t believe that you are a tenured public school teacher. I think that you are an administrator sitting on your ass all day in your air conditioned office and that includes your own bathroom. I think that, no I know that, you have formulated a “hit list” of teachers with the amount of years and U accordingly. You don’t need merit pay because you get a “bonus” for every U that you give. You have spies in the school that do your bidding for you so that they can have it easy.  Like a lion in the jungle looking for weak prey to pounce on, you do the same with your teachers. you look for ANY weakness that you can find in a teacher. you view weakness as the following: age, disability, struggling, unpopular, etc. (yes there are teachers who work with a disability and NO accommodation is made) I long for the day that you are escorted out in hand cuffs and the school is shut down. W would be better off as an ATR and basically that’s what we are ALL waiting for am waiting for. I know that my school is not the only one that has this situation. I know that I speak for many besides the ones in my school.

 Thank you ABC for telling it like it is. I needed to explain many of the things that you posted but you and I know how long it would take. Many people need to be “enlightened” and I hope that they were.

 Why is your friend “Larry” diverting the attention to the pension of teachers? And “supposedly as a tenured public school teacher” how come you have no say about it?

 ”Misdirection?” You got balls! Is your friend Larry talking about pensions. Not one above article discusses that!

the comments section on this blog are terrifying

We’ll I’m not anonyomous.  Perhaps that’s why I’m not insulting anyone personally.

“Is your friend Larry talking about pensions. Not one above article discusses that!”

You miss, or do not want to hear, the point.  When I keep hearing is the schools are no better, or worse, and that teachers are no happier, or are less happy, than 15 years ago, as the discussion on this site evidences. 

Now to add to this — the article about higher turnover.  Well that means we are getting the same as we were getting 15 years ago, but for far more money.  I remember writing about the discrepencies in state aid, low pay, and high teacher turnover in the later 1990s.  I remembers stats on the subject back them.

There was a big increase in funding.  With no effect.  Why?  I remember a newspaper quote from Randi Weingarten when the last of the pension increases went through saying students would benefit because the city would retain more teachers.

tiredofyou, chill out, you come across like a crazy fundamentalist who heard someone insult islam.  please calm down.

I agree that the TRUTH can be terrifying to some people. I can handle the truth. I have to face this reality every day at my school. I would rather hear the truth than “comfortable lies, like when someone says that everything is okay and its far from it. Teachers need to remain anonymous. If you are not a teacher than you have nothing to lose. If I retired tomorrow I would reveal my identity and not care what the consequences would be. Please understand that many of the things that I write are not just my experiences but the experiences of my colleagues (new, veteran, tenured, untenured) from the same school. They don’t even want to risk writing on Gotham. I speak for those who can’t/won’t speak for themselves. and I can assure you it is the TRUTH. I do welcome other teachers from other schools to tell of similiar situations as I know that my school is NOT the only one by far. this is strictly anonymous of course. I want the public all to see what really goes on and why we do not welcome the new evaluation.

 Thank you Anonymous. I suspect that the very people that are asking me to reveal myself are administrators. ANYONE has the right to come on this sight and read, write, whatever they want. But there is no rule saying that you have to at anytime reveal yourself. So far no one suspects me in my school. As a matter of fact someone had said to me that I have a nice rappore with the new teachers.  We just tell whoever that we are discussing the common BORE oops I mean core! Gotta be careful  that could be a giveaway. I do want to say something on new teachers behalf TFA’s etc. These teachers are not all as naive as some think. Three of them have already been teaching 5 years and do not see tenure happening for them. These three teachers will be out the door on the next Open Market. They would like to try another school to see if it’s the same B.S. If so they leave teaching. They are against the new evaluation because they know that it could be their turn next to get a U. As the veteran teachers retire there will be a need for “replacement U”. What we need is a system that tracks high transfer rates to other schools from specific ones and hold the principals accountable for it.