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Fault lines emerge in mayoral hopefuls’ consensus on schools

Mayoral candidates mingle after discussing education at an event Wednesday hosted by the principals union.

If education policy discussions among mayoral candidates were a song, the second verse would be the same as the first.

With two recent entrants to the Republican race absent, the lineup for Wednesday evening’s discussion, hosted by the Council of School Supervisors and Administrators, was identical to the first education debate held in November, and the conversation was similar, too.

The four Democratic candidates — Public Advocate Bill de Blasio, Comptroller John Liu, City Council Speaker Christine Quinn, and former comptroller Bill Thompson — and the single Republican, Manhattan Media publisher Tom Allon, rehashed now-familiar positions on school closures (most want a moratorium), educator as chancellor (almost all are committed to that), and community schools (after a visit to Cincinnati, they are all on board with the model).

But CSA President Ernest Logan told GothamSchools that he thought sharper distinctions would emerge in the coming months, particularly about which elements of the Bloomberg administration’s school policies each candidate would maintain.

“I think [the candidates] are trying to come into their own,” he said. “If you dig down deep, I think you can find some disagreement.”

Some of the disagreements broke through onto the stage at Baruch College, where hundreds of school administrators convened for the event, billed as “A Conversation with NYC’s Next Mayor.”

Public Advocate Bill de Blasio repeated his plan to increase taxes on New Yorkers earning over $1 million to fund full-day, universal pre-kindergarten and after-school programming for low-income students. He also argued that his opponents would likely not be able to underwrite their education policy proposals.

“I respectfully challenge my colleagues to put forward a realistic plan to even pay for it that would achieve the same thing,” he said. But none did, and Allon argued that the increased taxes would drive the city’s wealthiest taxpayers out of the city.

And when Thompson said the city could create community schools without spending any additional money, as Cincinnati has, de Blasio pushed back.

“The reason it’s revenue-neutral in Cincinnati is largely because of scale,” he said, noting that the Ohio district has just 40,000 students, compared to 1.1 million in New York City. “Here we’re going to need new revenue if we want to be serious about this in our schools.”

It was an approach that made him stand out, CSA members said. “Bill de Blasio took a stance and didn’t waver, and I like that,” said Laverne Burrows, an assistant principal at P.S. 160 in the Bronx.

De Blasio was also the only candidate to name names when discussing the process of having charter schools share space in district buildings, which all said could be done better.

“Another thing that has to change starting in January is that Eva Moskowitz cannot continue to have the run of the place,” he said, referring to the founder and CEO of the Success Academy network of charter schools, which the Department of Education has allowed to open in more than a dozen school buildings. “She was giving the orders and chancellors were bowing down and agreeing. That’s not acceptable.”

The candidates also were divided on whether the Department of Education’s system of providing support to schools, which connects them by affinity rather than geography, should continue under the next administration.

“I am dubious about whether this current network structure can be kept,” de Blasio said. “The way it is structured right now just through the networks doesn’t make sense,” Thompson said.

But Quinn said she thought the network structure could survive.

“Some people really love the networks they’re in,” she said. “So I wouldn’t want to eliminate that for principals and schools that are finding a good match in the network, but I would want to explore ways to bring back a geographic overlay.”

Quinn continued to navigate the fine line between supporting Mayor Bloomberg, with whom she continues to work closely, and showing that a Quinn administration would bring change to the city’s schools.

When Allon said he would introduce merit pay as an alternative to more costly across-the-board raises for teachers, Quinn quickly pushed back. “The data simply does not support that,” she said, to applause. (Researchers found that a school-wide bonus program piloted in city schools under Bloomberg did not improve student achievement.)

But when the candidates were asked to say whether schools had improved under Bloomberg, she was the only one to answer, “Yes.” Even though Quinn added, “But it’s not progress I’m satisfied with,” the comment drew hisses from the crowd.

Former Metropolitan Transit Authority president Joe Lhota did not respond to an invitation to participate, and businessman John Catsimatidis bowed out at the last moment, according to a CSA spokeswoman. Catsimatidis’s chair sat empty on the stage.

  • Philip Nobile

    Here’s an issue no mayoral candidate will touch–the institutional corruption of the school cops: the DOE’s Office of Special Investigations and the Office of the Special Commissioner of Investigation. Firing OSI Director Candace McClaren and Special Commissioner Richard Condon is a necessary first step.   

  • Larry Littlefield

    If the didn’t ask about the Mayor’s right to grant pension increases under the new state law, they missed the main point that the candidates will be negotiating for campaign assistance for.

    Since the schools are worse:

    How about the elimination of Mayoral responsibility for the schools?

    How about the huge increase in education funding in NYC relative to other places, to a level that is now high but was low?

    Have city residents been cheated, and therefore is school reform an expensive chimera in NYC?  Or do they deserve what they get, or perhaps a little less, for what they are getting, for perhaps a little more?  If so, why?

  • I noticed that…

    Quinn continues to talk nonsense and continues to think that people will not forget her slush fund scandal.  I see in her a very deluded person.  She really thinks that she’ll win the election because she’s riding Daddy WarbuckBloomberg’s tail for financial $upport in her campaign.

    Quinn take a seat somewhere else that does not pertain to politics.  Your political career is over.  You helped the worst mayor in the nation to overturn term limits and now the public will remember that come November.  I will campaign feverishly to ensure that people do NOT vote for you. Once you destroy the public’s trust you might as well move to another country.

  • UFT Strong

    I keep seeing talk about the next chancellor. That’s so awesome to read. See ya Dennis!!

  • Abc

    Who asked? Did you ask? Nobody cares

  • Swan

    Larry, Larry, Larry. I never knew somebody who was so afraid of the evil pension monster as you. Do you think it hides under your bed at night?

  • UFT Strong

    BYE BYE MR WALCOTT. IF YOU ACTUALLY HAD A VISION, YOU NEVER ACTUALLY FOLLOWED IT. TOO BAD YOU WERE THE SUCK UP TO YOUR SUPERIOR, BLOOMBERG, WHO IS A LAME DUCK AND HAS HIS OWN OVERSLL GRADE OF “F”.

  • GREEN LANTERN

    Walcott is DONE! A lame duck as well. The state should really step in and not allow any more nonsense from this dynamic duo.

  • Larry Littlefield

    Really how about it?  Just eliminate Mayoral responsibility for the schools.  Let the law expire, or better yet, modify it by eliminating the Mayoral appointees to the Board of Education.

  • Flerp

    or don’t let the Mayor stack the PEP.  But I take your main point to be that our next Mayor is not going to want to “own” education in NYC, and so any policy change that allows the next Mayor to blame someone else — the unions, school boards, parents, whatever — would be a savvy piece of political self-preservation.  I’m not sure I can make a good counterargument.

  • Bhuiii

    Can someone please tell me what a Community school is? All candidates want this but what is it?

  • Larry Littlefield

    When some of the education budget is used to pay for the use of school buildings by other activities, and other people, in non-school hours.

    Fiscal crunches, and the high cost of custodian overtime, is generally given as the reason this is not done.

  • Ken Hirsh

    Paraphrased from the Wikipedia page on Harlem Children’s Zone (a prominent example of this model): A community school designs, funds, and operates a holistic system of education, social-services and community-building programs to counter the negative influences of crime, drugs and poverty and help children complete college and go on to the job market.

    My opinion:In addition to any possible genuine merits, this model offers a solution that provides the latest excuse for urban school failure while simultaneously requiring massive additional funding.  Understandably, this combination is catnip for teachers unions. Bill de Blasio deserves some credit for at least admitting that this model requires significant additional funding.  Bill Thompson should feel embarrassed to suggest otherwise, but I’m not sure career politicians get embarrassed.  

  • Larry Littlefield

    Of course we could stop de-funding the libraries to cover up the damage from the 2008 pension deal, and have them serve as the community centers. 

  • Waititoutmulgrew

    I second every single word written here by i noticed that…..nice job bud…lets work on getting “quinn” out of here and lets support Thompson, Diblasio and LIu…

  • Waititoutmulgrew

    somehow bloomberg is responsible or created it

  • Waititoutmulgrew

    in all fairness walcott is really not responsible for the mad dog mayor.  walcott in reality is a friendly, mellow dude…can’t you just picture walcott hanging out with the big red earphones on listening to jazz….yeah mellow yellow walcott has been tossed in with the lion toy mayor that does not stop barking and yawning

  • Suzyq

    Bloomterd has taken away:
    1. Teacher parking permits
    2. Teacher cafeterias
    3. Teachers choice money for supplies
    4. Teacher parking lots
    5. Teacher respect
    6. Quality teachers with rich experience (now sitting in media labs in schools hanging around)
    7. Quality counselors with rich experience (now sitting around not being utilized)
    8. Any parent involvement regarding the well being of schools and communities
    9. Precious school space including giving up space to charter schools and forcing out public school students to basements and having lunch at 10 am so the charters can eat at noon
    10. The heart and soul of educators alike including all: in that most nyc educators secretly are not happy, not motivated to work for this mayor and his policies
    Bloomterd has added:
    1. “Non for profit” workers acting as educators
    2. Small bogus themed schools with 2 year principals and 1 year APs
    3. Overpaid, under informed so called “consultants” who probe schools for which no one understands why
    4. Millions of dollars worth of no bid contracts to cronies to benefit 
    5. a school bus strike one that has been stable for 30 years
    i can keep going but i have to pick up my kids because there are no buses running thanks to bloombird

  • Larry Littlefield

    4. Teacher parking lots  — do you mean the playgrounds?

    He also added a 20% raise, and a 25/55 pension deal, which jacked up the total amount spent on the schools hugely.  That remains no matter what happens to the rest of your list.

  • Suzyq

    Hey larry how ever you are, just know this, every single educator in nyc despises this top down mayor. Plain and simple.  I do not know any teacher, and i’ve spoke with my sons teachers privately they tell me they cant wait for this midget to get out of office….truth be said

  • Ginadavis

    Hey Larry, check out the brand new schools over by the grand concourse.  These schools were built by bloomdoe.  Great schools with much land all around the campus i.e. football field, soccer field, parks for kids to hang out. other wasted park like area with benches and alike….nice place….but i was unable to locate the teachers parking lot.   soon i found out that bloomdoe built the school but did not bother to build any teacher parking.????? So, any teachers who work there are forced to pay $10 a day to park.

  • Larry Littlefield

    “Every single educator in nyc despises this top down mayor.”

    Despites despite all the extra money?  No one has pulled that off since Lindsay!

  • Thompsonformayor

    Hey Larry, don’t sell your soul to the devil for money….Remember, money is the route to all evil and you are the typical human who falls for the dollar and then gets sucked into oblivion  hey im just saying

  • Larry Littlefield

    Don’t worry.  I’ve been dedicated to living modestly my whole life, so I have plenty of money.  And I wouldn’t sell my soul for more years in retirement, either.

  • Abc

    You are dedicated to nothing but numbers the human aspect of life escapes you. For someone on the day that all those children were killed to rant and rave about someones pension shows where you come from. You make it sound that people who earned their pensions some how stole them shows that you are out somewhere in space.I love the fact that it sticks in your throat.You know nothing about education but your fascination about what you see in numbers  shows that you are lacking in human compassion. You will need plenty of money because you are fixated on teachers and their pensions instead of doing your job. Do city planners get a pension?

  • wise owl

    EVERY city worker gets some sort of a pension if they worked long enough to receive one. Some get more than others depending on their title, tier,time etc. This includes sanitation, police, firemen, hospital workers, cafeteria workers, EMT, etc. People who work in the private sector get more money in their salary and less in health benefits, pension etc  Civil servants and (believe me I feel like a servant) get less in salary more in health, pension etc. These are choices that we made years ago. That’s why we have unions. Anyone who is “jealous” of this is free to get a civil service job. Try the Chief newspapers on Tuesdays. Depending upon the job there are tests that you have to pay for and you go on a list that can take years until you are called. What is the issue with the pensions. I do not understand?

  • Abc

    He would rather complain because he really doesnt care and he made a choice to be a city planner but it is obvious that he is so jealous that he fixates on teacher pensions. Not the cops not the fireman not sanitation workers just teachers. What is his hidden agenda? I truly believe that he was left back in kindergarden because he could not play well with other children and he will never forgive his teacher. So we must pay for this everyday.

  • Abc

    You have a child in your class who each and every day repeats the same thing. You ask a question and he never answers the question you ask but just repeats the same thing all the time. This happens day after day, class after class. Tell me what you should do? What should we call this behavior?

  • Qbert47

    Why do teachers feel entitled to parking lots? Take mass transit like everybody else.

  • wise owl

    Teachers have to carry heavy tote bags, things that they bought with their OWN money books etc. You need to be an octopus to carry everything. What do you think that the job ends at the 3pm and we walk out with nothing?
    Do you think that in the morning we are not carrying tote bags books, etc. in the morning either?  Why don’t you pull up next to a school mornings and afternoons and see what the teachers are carrying? Better yet walk into a classroom and see the job for what it really is.

  • wise owl

     Please read my comment-Wise owl

  • wise owl

    I left out carrying their own supplies and I can enumerate that too if you would like to hear it. When you work in an office or any other job you are given supplies You do not buy your own or carry them to and from work. no many of us do not have a place to put our things and that includes our coats etc. No we don’t all have our own classrooms all day. I am in 5 different classroom and my things go with me all day long!!!

  • wise owl

    My trunk is my classroom stupid people!!!

  • Qbert47

    Dear lazy I mean “wise” owl: I’ll happily walk into your classroom (as I am paying your salary). Just tell me when and where.

  • Greek11102@aol.com

    Wise Owl I love you! Put these guys in their place. But tell us at which horrid school you work.

  • A.S.Neill

    Whether or not teachers are “entitled” to parking lots, which I don’t think they are as such, the question really should be what the DOE is doing about promoting teacher retention where the situation is that 50% of new teachers are leaving their schools within 4 years, and the majority of those are leaving teaching in NYC. Since new teachers tend to get hired in the worst performing schools, this kind of teacher turnover is severely detrimental to these students who need experienced teachers. If parking lots can be shown to be one factor in retaining teachers at a school, then wise policy would be that parking lots for teachers makes sense. 

  • wise owl

     Qbert47
     I’m going to answer your question with a question: What do you do for a living? Do you take your job home with you?

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