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Talks resume

January 29, 2013

As education hearings get underway, City-UFT eval talks resume

by Geoff Decker, at 11:50 am

State Education Commissioner John King was the first official to testify on the 2013-2014 budget this morning.

Albany — A day after Mayor Bloomberg declared the chances of a teacher evaluation deal with the city’s teachers union “impossible,” both sides confirmed this morning that they are returning to the table.

United Federation of Teachers President Michael Mulgrew first announced that talks were set to resume at the union’s legislative breakfast this morning, the Daily News reported.

The announcement comes hours before Mulgrew is set to testify before the state Assembly and Senate education committees about the 2013-2014 budget. He is among dozens of education officials and advocates who will make their case to the legislature about what they like and what they don’t like about Gov. Andrew Cuomo’s proposal.

Speaking now is John King, who asked for an extra $100 million in state aid, more money for early childhood education and $2.5 million for testing security and technology programs.

The renewed talks comes as Bloomberg faces mounting pressure from Albany to return to the table. New York City was one of six districts — out of 691 — that did not meet the Jan. 17 deadline, losing out on $240 million in state aid. It faces additional funding penalties if it does not show an effort to implement evaluations in the next two weeks.

Ratcheting up the pressure yesterday, Gov. Andrew Cuomo disputed Bloomberg’s testimony, which panned many of the state’s other district plans because many of them expired after one or more years. Cuomo told the Albany Times Union’s editorial board that Bloomberg’s critique was “factually incorrect” because the districts would still need to have teacher evaluation systems in order to qualify for state aid.

A source said Mulgrew first reached out yesterday afternoon, but it wasn’t to officials at the Department of Education, who he had been negotiating with directly when a deal fell apart two weeks ago. Instead, the source said, Mulgrew called City Hall, which he said has been pulling the strings in the negotiations.

“It was when they called the mayor that it blew up,” Mulgrew said yesterday, referring to the deal’s eleventh-hour collapse. “City Hall had told us that the DOE was fully authorized to make this deal so we negotiated with them. But it was the mayor.”

Bloomberg’s office didn’t return his call, but Chancellor Dennis Walcott did, the source said.

A city spokeswoman said Walcott has been reaching to the union since last week.

Both sides are now working out dates in which to hammer out the final details of a deal, which include when the deal would expire. They will likely seek to meet before Feb. 15, a deadline that the State Education Department has set for the city to show it is prepared to implement a teacher evaluation system. If the city misses that deadline, it will lose control of federal aid meant for low-income students.

Principals Union President Ernie Logan, in Albany to testify, said that he has not resumed talks with the city. The city is closer to a deal with the principals union than it is with the teachers.

“They haven’t called me yet,” Logan said.

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  • guest

    if history is any indicator, Mulgrew will fold like a cheap suit.

  • Nyr686

    what is there to meet about???? what is mulgrew going to extend the expiration date???  not quite understanding here…….????? the sunset clause will have to remain in effect.  bloomterd does not want a sunset, correct??  so, am i to presume that the only way a deal can be made is if a sunset clause is included in the deal……but….bloomdoesmuck said he did not want sunset?/

  • Nyr686

    Bloomberg has previously been accused of sexually harassing women under his employment, which he has denied.[65][66] In 1997 a former Bloomberg L.P. employee filed a lawsuit accusing Bloomberg of having responded to her announcement to him that she was pregnant in 1995 by saying, “Kill it!” followed by “Great, No. 16″, which she cited a reference to the number of pregnant women in the company at the time.

  • Richie

    Do I smell a sell-out?

  • Night Rider

    Why on Earth is the UFT meeting/negotiating with the DOE? There is absolutely nothing that needs to be discussed. The January 17th deadline for a new evaluation came and went with no deal and that is the end of the story as far as the union should be concerned. Of course Cuomo and King are trying to “withhold” a billion dollars if a new evaluation is not agreed to by Feb 15th. (Or is it September 1st?) However, the UFT must, and I repeat, must, not make deals with the devil at this time. Wait it out till’ a more reasonable mayor is sitting at the negotiation table. Let the attrition cards fall where they may between now and then. Patience is paramount right now and any deal made under the current administration will be a nightmare for every single teacher in NYC. Mulgrew was seen as a hero a couple of weeks ago, but he can blow it all away if he makes a deal too soon. 

  • I noticed that…

    Didn’t the teachers in Vermont reject NCLB waiver, RttT money, and has no new teacher evaluation?  Yet, they have the highest graduation rate. 

    Mulgrew you went to Cincinnati, OH to check out the wrap-services that are provided in their school system.  Now go to Vermont and check out how the teachers and their union rejected the politically-laden education policies and are showing success in their schools.  They must be doing something right for the students, the schools and its members.

  • Bob Schwartz

    The ghost of Randi Weingarten is alive

  • SayYesToAccountability

    I cannot believe the comments here.

    Without an evaluation deal, the city will continue to maintain its strangle hold on education, forcing schools to cut budget and excess teachers with the lowest seniority.

    So essentially, what I’m hearing from my “colleagues” is that we need to continue a seniority system that blocks young teachers from having the same union rights.  I’m all for union representation, but we need to have a fair system in place that evaluates educators, rewarding us for our work, not for our ability to stay alive.

    And before you all denounce me as E4E or a Bloomberg plant, truly consider my comments as a rational plea.  I’m not out to get anyone or acting as a subversive element to the union.  But, if we are models for our students, why can we not subject ourselves to the very system of evaluation that we provide for our students?

  • SayNoToAccountability

    Our union takes dues from everyone, young or old.  But where is the representation for us younger teachers?

  • GUEST

    First of all, teachers have always been evaluated.  They were evaluated fairly by experienced Assistant Principals and Principals who paid their dues properly; who knew a good lesson from a poor one and who were able to work with teachers to develop professional improvement plans.  Nobody is opposed to a system like that.  And none of this garbage that you cannot get rid of a poor teacher if he or she is incompetent.  As a supervisor, I went through this procedure and while it was not always pleasant, taking away somebody livliohood should not be pleasant and should be a system where the person being terminated is given a fair opportunity to defend himself.

    This is lacking in what the mad man mayor wants.   He wants a system where if a Principal says you’re gone, you’re gone.  No appeals (something the UFT has agreed to, btw in a sense that limits were placed on the number of teachers who appear their ratings).  This is the way it works in Bloomberg’s cmpany and he wants the same thing here.

    It’s too bad so many of the young teachers of today have been working for Principals, few of whom are really qualified to be Principals based on the experience they bring to the table.  Nobody can be a competent Principal and do what is required of a Principal after 3 years in the classroom like so many of the people they have rammed through the Leadership Academy.  The key job of a Principal is Principal Teacher to improve instruction within his or her school.  Period.  Everything else pales in comparison to that.  But that is not the kind of person Bloomberg et al think and have moved to be Principals.  Hundreds of very well qualified people who worked hard to climb the ladder of success were passed over for these Johnny come Latelys who haven’t got the slightest grasp of what goes into a good lesson.  Most of them who are yes people.  I have spoken to several people who have taught in the high schools and the elemen tary scool mentalities pushed on the high schools by so many of these incompetents.  Have the children face each other.  Have the children sit in groups.  Sure.  That’s the way they do it in college.  But that’s another story.

    This whole new evaluation system is unadulterated garbage.  Danielson herself indicates her system was never meant to evaluate teacher.  Yet nonethe less it is pushed on the teachers by a system where knowing something about education is not a pre-requisite to becoming a school administrator.

  • T.K.

    You obviously do not have an understanding of how civil service jobs work. Seniority is everything and that is the way it is. I have been teaching for a very long time. I understood when I was younger that I could be “bumped” back when seniority based transfers were still common. I understood and respected the older teachers who put in their time and I never complained. Half way through my teaching career I moved to another school district and I was let go due to budget cuts. And guess what? I did not complain that more senior teachers were not let go. In a perfect world no teacher would be excessed or let go due to budget cuts. However, if and when that happens, the most fair way to accomplish this is through seniority. And please don’t try to mention: “We should get rid of the ineffective teachers first, no matter how senior they are”. That argument does not fly as the vast majority of teachers are not ineffective and the vast majority deserve to keep their jobs. Once again, seniority is the backbone of the civil service world. You will be happy once you are a veteran teacher and see that seniority will allow you to not be fired by a money hungry administration that would prefer to get rid of you for a cheaper newbie teacher.

  • TeachmyclassMrMayor

     Considering they supposedly already had a deal, what the heck is there to “continue to negotiate”? You won’t but please Mr. Mulgrew, tell the DOE to **** themselves. We had a deal…

  • TeachmyclassMrMayor

     Richie, count on it, it has already been done…and there will be no vote, because Unity & Mulgrew are scared to death it will be rejected by the members, who as we all know have not had a contract in four years. Mr. Mulgrew, you are gutless. And if I got you in a room alone, I would tell you this. Although I do not know why I would worry about embarrassing you, based on how many times, the leadership has sold out the members.

  • East Sider

    The parameters of a teacher evaluation plan is set in State law – 60%
    principal observations, 20% state test score where applicable or mutually agreed
    upon Student Learning Objectives (SLO) and a locally negotiated 20% than can
    include portfolios of student work. The current law is 100% principal judgment.
    From what has been reported in the press the two “sticking points” were the
    sunset date and the details of the appeal process from an adverse rating. Seems
    to be to be a significant upgrade from the current system in which a principal
    can observe a teacher 5-6 times and bring them up on charges of incompetence. As
    Mulgrew explained at the last Delegates Meeting the “growth” is a student, from
    wherever they were when they entered your class, to the end of the school year
    is “owned” by the teacher.

    Seems reasonable … and the law/regulations will probably be tweaked as we
    move into the process.

  • Jdbalthazar

    Us older teachers paid more and longer. Our Union is only out for themselves, they raise their salaries even while we haven’t gotten a raise since 2008

  • teacher from the Bronx

    You must be kidding. Are you a teacher? Are you drinking the cool-aide? Growth model? How about Phys. Ed? Data, data, data, what about thinking and reasoning, how do you MEASURE that? Teacher lose either way. I have never had a bad observation under the old system, why would I want a change?

  • I noticed that…

    Why do you keep saying that there’s no union representation for the younger teachers.  What I think you mean is what is the protection for untenured teachers, whether they’re young or up in age? 

    Secondly, all untenured teachers are at-will employees (this is part of the civil service job and it’s part of state ed law).  Union representation is there; it’s the chapter leader.  If your school doesn’t have one, then I can hear the concern of wondering about union representation.

    Moreover, do you plan to stay young forever?  Eventually, you will reach the veteran level (20+ years of teaching) and a young teacher may ask you the same question.  Wouldn’t it be nice to regale how you were involved in union activities, fighting for the rights of all union members, protecting seniority and tenure, and having to deal with your own excessing. 

    I would like you to understand what veteran union members do.  We fight now so you can fight for the younger teachers down the road. 

    Ask the retired veteran union members who went on strike in 68, knowing that they would get penalized two days of pay for each day they were on strike.

    Ask the veteran union members who were laid off in 1975 when the city was broke and those members had a family to support, yet there supported the union in all their fights against the city.

    All those veteran members were young when those events occured but it did not deter them from fighting or going against veteran union members.

    So yes to accountability should also be yes to union involvement.

  • I noticed that…

    Seattle SS high school teacher, Jesse Hagopian, speaks on Democracy Now about the MAP test boycott.  Teachers at Garfield HS will be penalized with a 10-day suspension without pay.  Holding steadfast to their beliefs, teachers said that this a civil rights movement in history to fight against the testing mania and for using the test to rate them.

    Great video:  http://www.democracynow.org/2013/1/29/seattles_teacher_uprising_high_school_faculty

  • GUEST

    While it is true that the current evaluation system is based mostly on supervisor observations, there was a very robust appeals process and the UFT was on top of it and if the supervisor had not properly documents not only the alleged incompetence but the steps that were taken to improve the teacher’s performance, many of these cases regarding tenured teachers were lost.  The appeals procedure is very important putting the onus on the supervisor to dot all the i’s and cross all the t’s.  It is a far more protective system than what Bollomberg and his lackeys want.

  • I noticed that…

    Have you read the state ed law 3012-c in its entirety?

    If you did, then you would understand the trepidation teachers feel regarding the new teacher evaluation.

  • Larry Littlefield

    Does not a new evaluation system go along with a contract?  If so, I’m against it.

    No evaluation system would be worth a raise, and thus a pension increase, for those cashing in and moving out at 55, combined with a pay cut for new hires to $25,000 to pay for it, to go along with their diminished pensions.

    Both Bloomberg, and the Unions, and all the rest of the pols have a history of this.  I’d just as soon not have Bloomberg negotiate another contract.  

  • guest

    Any honest principal will tell you that the evaluation plan is garbage.   The UFT is trying to say that Danielson will protect teachers from the incompetent and malicious principals.  How exactly does that work? 

  • Clay

    Can’t you find another hobby?

  • BloombergMustGo

    LMAO!!

  • Soccermom56

    Isn’t there a law that says we MUST have a new evaluation system that includes data, etc?

    Is it, or is it not the law?

  • wise owl

    Does anyone know if you can get a U for Bulletin boards ?

  • A.S.Neill

     I have to agree with East Sider on this. The DOE has tacitly or openly given principals open season to go after teachers for whatever arbitrary reason they can think up. Because it has not happened to you, does not mean it is not happening elsewhere, which it clearly is.

    Obviously, I have not seen the details of the new eval system, but my interpretation on current evidence is that on balance the 60% that is not data driven, does improve teacher protections as I’ve pointed out elsewhere. The 20% of data based evaluation is obviously flawed, but it is state law, so the best we can do is include protections for dishonesty or carelessness for the time being. Eventually, I expect enough good teachers will be driven out of teaching on this point, that its flaws will lead to its repeal or major amendments when the mass hysteria dies down.

    I am most concerned about the other 20% of data based evaluation that is subject to negotiation, so am hoping the union recognizes its importance. If the DOE gets to use the second 20% of data driven evaluation like the first 20%, then the new eval system will not work.  And finally, I fully expect the UFT to get a sunset provision, so this whole thing can be renegotiated after Bloomberg is gone. If there ever was a “Bloomberg legacy” it is entirely in gone now and I believe his “legacy” will be how not to run a school system. He’s also pretty much finished in national politics as well.

    The UFT has always recognized that the DOE had tremendous arbitrary power under the old eval system, but some degree of mutual respect and professionalism historically held it together for most, although many were still caught in the web of unfairness its true. But now that the infant Bloomberg had declared total war on teachers, and fast tracked child principals and APs, that web of unfairness has completely corrupted the old system and it has to be discarded.

    I am not saying I approve or disapprove of the new eval system until I’ve seen it and its details. But to simply stick your head in the sand at this point is not going to work.

  • I noticed that…

    You can’t be rated on your bulletin board.  It’s in Article 21A6:
    “The following issues shall not be the basis for discipline of pedagogues: a) the
    format of bulletin boards; b) the arrangement of classroom furniture; and c) the exact duration of lesson units.”

    format of bulletin boards; b) the arrangement of classroom furniture; and c) the exact duration of lesson units.”

  • Peoria22

    Amen to that

  • Peg Metzger

    Funny how the teachers are blamed for the loss of state and federal aid if they don’t  agree to put their careers in jeopardy by agreeing to invalid use of test results, but the perps who are witholding the money ( blackmail), are doing so because they ” care about the the poor kids”.
    That doesn’t make any more sense than evaluating teachers on the marks of kids who don’t come to class, and those who don’t speak English.

    What has happened to common sense? 
    Maybe besides a “bar exam” for teachers, we shouid use the Hippocratic oath for political appointees and their cohorts in in the devastating charade called ‘Ed-Reform”.

    “Do no harm…” or rather ” stop doing harm…”

  • Soccermom56

    You should ask someone who knows.

  • Soccermom56

    I noticed that….can I get a ticket for going 35 mph?

  • Bloomywaste

    its fools like you that get destroyed by the system….

  • Bloomywaste

    you are exactly the reason why there is no eval on the table right now….colleagues, can you imagine having to be evaluated by this naive kid who knows nothing????  Fact of the matter is you will not even last another year or so believe me…YOu will get frustrated when you do not get tenure and then quit but hey i’m just saying

  • Bloomywaste

    Mulgrew, we are in the drivers seat, don’t sell out to the city bozos running the asylum.  The city knows they screwed up.  Bloomterd is panicking…..Don’t make a deal with the devil….because bloomterd is the devil himself…lucifer in the real 

  • I noticed that…

    If you go 34 mph, you may be able to go under the radar.  So go at your own speed and hopefully, you’ll catch up with reality.

  • wise owl

    I noticed that.. you gave me advice once before. Thanks, I appreciate it. It may sound funny about the Bulletin boards but you know as well as me that principals ARE making a big deal over this. He even wants the date on it. A principal can U you on anything these days and our rights are not that alive and well anymore. At least I’m tenured.

  • deuceman99

    if any teacher has half a brain they will not want this new evaluation system implemented. why should a teacher be evaluated on how these kids do on a test? can the teacher control if the kid comes to class with no pen, no notebook, refuses to listen and has dead beats for parents, father prob in jail too. and how come the teachers have no vote in the matter? its a joke and an insult to the teachers. but watch you will see the uft give in because they fear negative press. before any evaluation we should be asking for a new contract with a nice raise. once again the teachers will get screwed. this evaluation is meant to make it easier to fire teachers and now the kids do the dirty work for the principal. the principal says “hey your class didnt do well on their tests, thats not my fault, you are their teacher”. and if the principal doesnt like you he gives you the worst class.

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