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	<title>Comments on: Tenure rate holds steady, but just 42 teachers denied on first try</title>
	<atom:link href="http://gothamschools.org/2012/08/17/tenure-rate-holds-steady-but-just-42-teachers-denied-on-first-try/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://gothamschools.org/2012/08/17/tenure-rate-holds-steady-but-just-42-teachers-denied-on-first-try/</link>
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		<title>By: Guest!</title>
		<link>http://gothamschools.org/2012/08/17/tenure-rate-holds-steady-but-just-42-teachers-denied-on-first-try/comment-page-1/#comment-378846</link>
		<dc:creator>Guest!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2012 22:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gothamschools.org/?p=89884#comment-378846</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[yo that chart looks like the loch ness monster all right peace]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yo that chart looks like the loch ness monster all right peace</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://gothamschools.org/2012/08/17/tenure-rate-holds-steady-but-just-42-teachers-denied-on-first-try/comment-page-1/#comment-376509</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2012 16:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gothamschools.org/?p=89884#comment-376509</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m picturing a &quot;Trading Places&quot;-era Ralph Bellamy and Don Ameche reading burned&#039;s comment and laughing uproariously for 30 seconds.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m picturing a &#8220;Trading Places&#8221;-era Ralph Bellamy and Don Ameche reading burned&#8217;s comment and laughing uproariously for 30 seconds.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Flerporillo</title>
		<link>http://gothamschools.org/2012/08/17/tenure-rate-holds-steady-but-just-42-teachers-denied-on-first-try/comment-page-1/#comment-376507</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Flerporillo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2012 16:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gothamschools.org/?p=89884#comment-376507</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Have you been in a cryogenic sleep for the last 50 years?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have you been in a cryogenic sleep for the last 50 years?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: burned</title>
		<link>http://gothamschools.org/2012/08/17/tenure-rate-holds-steady-but-just-42-teachers-denied-on-first-try/comment-page-1/#comment-376506</link>
		<dc:creator>burned</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2012 15:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gothamschools.org/?p=89884#comment-376506</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Why can&#039;t most employees aim to achieve due process rights?  Why does it have to be a &quot;race to the bottom?&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why can&#8217;t most employees aim to achieve due process rights?  Why does it have to be a &#8220;race to the bottom?&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: burned</title>
		<link>http://gothamschools.org/2012/08/17/tenure-rate-holds-steady-but-just-42-teachers-denied-on-first-try/comment-page-1/#comment-376505</link>
		<dc:creator>burned</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2012 15:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gothamschools.org/?p=89884#comment-376505</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The UFT has to do a big public education campaign to explain that tenure = due process.  The public believes in due process.  ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The UFT has to do a big public education campaign to explain that tenure = due process.  The public believes in due process.  </p>
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		<title>By: burned</title>
		<link>http://gothamschools.org/2012/08/17/tenure-rate-holds-steady-but-just-42-teachers-denied-on-first-try/comment-page-1/#comment-376504</link>
		<dc:creator>burned</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2012 15:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gothamschools.org/?p=89884#comment-376504</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Generally, a long-standing, bargaining unit-wide past practice cannot be unilaterally changed, i.e., cannot be changed w/o consultation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Generally, a long-standing, bargaining unit-wide past practice cannot be unilaterally changed, i.e., cannot be changed w/o consultation.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Teacher</title>
		<link>http://gothamschools.org/2012/08/17/tenure-rate-holds-steady-but-just-42-teachers-denied-on-first-try/comment-page-1/#comment-376490</link>
		<dc:creator>Teacher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2012 18:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gothamschools.org/?p=89884#comment-376490</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Ed,

Come join the teaching profession and you&#039;ll see why.  What was your college major, by the way?  Are you against Unions and Tenure and Job Protection in general, or is it something about Teachers that gets your goat?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ed,</p>
<p>Come join the teaching profession and you&#8217;ll see why.  What was your college major, by the way?  Are you against Unions and Tenure and Job Protection in general, or is it something about Teachers that gets your goat?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Mr. Flerporillo</title>
		<link>http://gothamschools.org/2012/08/17/tenure-rate-holds-steady-but-just-42-teachers-denied-on-first-try/comment-page-1/#comment-376483</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Flerporillo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2012 15:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gothamschools.org/?p=89884#comment-376483</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Depends on whether the DOE has any obligation to &quot;consult&quot; the union about the standards by which it makes tenure decisions. I&#039;m not aware of one. Are you?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Depends on whether the DOE has any obligation to &#8220;consult&#8221; the union about the standards by which it makes tenure decisions. I&#8217;m not aware of one. Are you?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: JJ</title>
		<link>http://gothamschools.org/2012/08/17/tenure-rate-holds-steady-but-just-42-teachers-denied-on-first-try/comment-page-1/#comment-376482</link>
		<dc:creator>JJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2012 14:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gothamschools.org/?p=89884#comment-376482</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Do you have any idea how much it costs to hire a lawyer and sue in court for wrongful termination? The general public never complained about tenure until the economy went to Hell and tons of folks lost their jobs. Tenure is fine as is. Leave it alone.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you have any idea how much it costs to hire a lawyer and sue in court for wrongful termination? The general public never complained about tenure until the economy went to Hell and tons of folks lost their jobs. Tenure is fine as is. Leave it alone.</p>
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		<title>By: guest</title>
		<link>http://gothamschools.org/2012/08/17/tenure-rate-holds-steady-but-just-42-teachers-denied-on-first-try/comment-page-1/#comment-376481</link>
		<dc:creator>guest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2012 12:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gothamschools.org/?p=89884#comment-376481</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mf. F.....So what about something others have brought up here i.e. past practices.  The DOE has imposed a higher standard for the awarding of tenure without consultation as shown by the statisticsd.  I agree, it&#039;s a stretch but you never know.  They used statistics to claim the Fire Department&#039;s entrance exam was biased against certain groups.  Whether the chances are slim, given the role the union is supposed to play, the fact is they&#039;ve done nothing to try to defend the best interests of the teachers.

Now, believe me, I get it.  Randi has put the word out to Mulgrew the union cannot go against &quot;educational reform.&quot;  If the union is pictured as such, that would hurt her chances to become the next Arne Duncan if Obama can beat the tax evader, hardly a sure thing.  To do that, ever since the last contract, the union has given in time after time and done nothing while Bloomberg has systemaically gone about destroying the morale and getting rid of many good teachers.  And don&#039;t think for one sec ond these tenure decisionis are based on a true analysis of the teachers.  The Principals are told they have quotas and if there are any brave Principals out there (of course given the way Principals are put in jobs today, there are very few), the Superitendnts are there to impose their own quotas.

Hopefully when Bloomberg is gone, a new Mayor will work with the professionals, incloudng the teachers, to put the school system back together again but that&#039;s a year and a half down the line.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mf. F&#8230;..So what about something others have brought up here i.e. past practices.  The DOE has imposed a higher standard for the awarding of tenure without consultation as shown by the statisticsd.  I agree, it&#8217;s a stretch but you never know.  They used statistics to claim the Fire Department&#8217;s entrance exam was biased against certain groups.  Whether the chances are slim, given the role the union is supposed to play, the fact is they&#8217;ve done nothing to try to defend the best interests of the teachers.</p>
<p>Now, believe me, I get it.  Randi has put the word out to Mulgrew the union cannot go against &#8220;educational reform.&#8221;  If the union is pictured as such, that would hurt her chances to become the next Arne Duncan if Obama can beat the tax evader, hardly a sure thing.  To do that, ever since the last contract, the union has given in time after time and done nothing while Bloomberg has systemaically gone about destroying the morale and getting rid of many good teachers.  And don&#8217;t think for one sec ond these tenure decisionis are based on a true analysis of the teachers.  The Principals are told they have quotas and if there are any brave Principals out there (of course given the way Principals are put in jobs today, there are very few), the Superitendnts are there to impose their own quotas.</p>
<p>Hopefully when Bloomberg is gone, a new Mayor will work with the professionals, incloudng the teachers, to put the school system back together again but that&#8217;s a year and a half down the line.</p>
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		<title>By: Guest</title>
		<link>http://gothamschools.org/2012/08/17/tenure-rate-holds-steady-but-just-42-teachers-denied-on-first-try/comment-page-1/#comment-376479</link>
		<dc:creator>Guest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2012 05:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gothamschools.org/?p=89884#comment-376479</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[because you have lost public opinion 
the public rejects tenure 
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>because you have lost public opinion<br />
the public rejects tenure </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ed</title>
		<link>http://gothamschools.org/2012/08/17/tenure-rate-holds-steady-but-just-42-teachers-denied-on-first-try/comment-page-1/#comment-376477</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2012 01:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gothamschools.org/?p=89884#comment-376477</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Why can&#039;t the complaining teachers be subject to the same at-will termination as most employees?  If you are terminated for an illegal reason, you always have the right to sue.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why can&#8217;t the complaining teachers be subject to the same at-will termination as most employees?  If you are terminated for an illegal reason, you always have the right to sue.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Mr. Flerporillo</title>
		<link>http://gothamschools.org/2012/08/17/tenure-rate-holds-steady-but-just-42-teachers-denied-on-first-try/comment-page-1/#comment-376470</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Flerporillo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Aug 2012 19:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gothamschools.org/?p=89884#comment-376470</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Class actions are aggregations of individual claims.  If the individual claims aren&#039;t valid, the class action isn&#039;t valid. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Class actions are aggregations of individual claims.  If the individual claims aren&#8217;t valid, the class action isn&#8217;t valid. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Teacher</title>
		<link>http://gothamschools.org/2012/08/17/tenure-rate-holds-steady-but-just-42-teachers-denied-on-first-try/comment-page-1/#comment-376469</link>
		<dc:creator>Teacher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Aug 2012 13:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gothamschools.org/?p=89884#comment-376469</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes.  B. Traven would have a field day with the DOE.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes.  B. Traven would have a field day with the DOE.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: zeno</title>
		<link>http://gothamschools.org/2012/08/17/tenure-rate-holds-steady-but-just-42-teachers-denied-on-first-try/comment-page-1/#comment-376465</link>
		<dc:creator>zeno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Aug 2012 13:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gothamschools.org/?p=89884#comment-376465</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Really, this is a howling joke.  I&#039;m tenured, I&#039;m now in the ATR - which is an exclusive club allowing only EXPERIENCED teachers to be removed from their position.  Why seek tenure? for job security? what job security, like the outlaws said in Treasure of Sierra Madre...&quot;we don&#039;t need no stinkin&#039; badges&quot;. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really, this is a howling joke.  I&#8217;m tenured, I&#8217;m now in the ATR &#8211; which is an exclusive club allowing only EXPERIENCED teachers to be removed from their position.  Why seek tenure? for job security? what job security, like the outlaws said in Treasure of Sierra Madre&#8230;&#8221;we don&#8217;t need no stinkin&#8217; badges&#8221;. </p>
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		<title>By: guest</title>
		<link>http://gothamschools.org/2012/08/17/tenure-rate-holds-steady-but-just-42-teachers-denied-on-first-try/comment-page-1/#comment-376463</link>
		<dc:creator>guest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Aug 2012 12:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gothamschools.org/?p=89884#comment-376463</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just another example of the union standing by and doing nothing to protect its members.  Yes, I get it that the union cannot do anything about individual tenure decisions but what about a class action suit as this is obviously a change in working conditions?  Even if they lose, at least they will have shown the membership they are trying to do something.  Instead, as with so much else that has been ddone to the teachers, it&#039;s stand by and allow its members tro be marched like sheep to the slaughter.  What are the members&#039; dues being used for if not bread and butter issues like this?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just another example of the union standing by and doing nothing to protect its members.  Yes, I get it that the union cannot do anything about individual tenure decisions but what about a class action suit as this is obviously a change in working conditions?  Even if they lose, at least they will have shown the membership they are trying to do something.  Instead, as with so much else that has been ddone to the teachers, it&#8217;s stand by and allow its members tro be marched like sheep to the slaughter.  What are the members&#8217; dues being used for if not bread and butter issues like this?</p>
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		<title>By: Tom (kemteach)</title>
		<link>http://gothamschools.org/2012/08/17/tenure-rate-holds-steady-but-just-42-teachers-denied-on-first-try/comment-page-1/#comment-376460</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom (kemteach)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Aug 2012 02:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gothamschools.org/?p=89884#comment-376460</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A few months ago In the New York Teacher, the teacher attrition rates were published.  Among the teachers hired in the 2006-2007 school year (5 years ago), 39.9% were no longer in the NYC system.  The license with the highest attrition rate was Science (51.1%) closely followed by English.  When anyone suggests my job is easy, I simply mention that data and ask them to suggest any profession that has attrition rates anywhere near those numbers.  

Just to correct a statement in the article, the phrase &quot;lifetime guarantee of employment&quot; is simply untrue and the D.O.E.&#039;s chief academic officer (I wonder what he gets paid to do) should know better.  Tenure simply guarantees a teacher &quot;due process&quot;, meaning they can not be fired for frivolous reasons.  ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A few months ago In the New York Teacher, the teacher attrition rates were published.  Among the teachers hired in the 2006-2007 school year (5 years ago), 39.9% were no longer in the NYC system.  The license with the highest attrition rate was Science (51.1%) closely followed by English.  When anyone suggests my job is easy, I simply mention that data and ask them to suggest any profession that has attrition rates anywhere near those numbers.  </p>
<p>Just to correct a statement in the article, the phrase &#8220;lifetime guarantee of employment&#8221; is simply untrue and the D.O.E.&#8217;s chief academic officer (I wonder what he gets paid to do) should know better.  Tenure simply guarantees a teacher &#8220;due process&#8221;, meaning they can not be fired for frivolous reasons.  </p>
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		<title>By: Philip Nobile</title>
		<link>http://gothamschools.org/2012/08/17/tenure-rate-holds-steady-but-just-42-teachers-denied-on-first-try/comment-page-1/#comment-376455</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Nobile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2012 23:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gothamschools.org/?p=89884#comment-376455</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Perfectly said. Pass rate quotas are the moral equivalent of Regents tampering. Untenured as well as tenured teachers are intimidated by cowardly administrators to pass failing kids. I&#039;d love to see an audit of course grades. You can be sure the same 65 bulge found in Regents scores is rampant on report cards. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perfectly said. Pass rate quotas are the moral equivalent of Regents tampering. Untenured as well as tenured teachers are intimidated by cowardly administrators to pass failing kids. I&#8217;d love to see an audit of course grades. You can be sure the same 65 bulge found in Regents scores is rampant on report cards. </p>
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		<title>By: Tedmlewis</title>
		<link>http://gothamschools.org/2012/08/17/tenure-rate-holds-steady-but-just-42-teachers-denied-on-first-try/comment-page-1/#comment-376454</link>
		<dc:creator>Tedmlewis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2012 23:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gothamschools.org/?p=89884#comment-376454</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sadly, the NYC education system chases away so many talented teachers. Gotham should do a feature on the scandolous turnover rate. Getting rid of bad teachers?  Try keeping the good ones.  I was one. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sadly, the NYC education system chases away so many talented teachers. Gotham should do a feature on the scandolous turnover rate. Getting rid of bad teachers?  Try keeping the good ones.  I was one. </p>
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		<title>By: BK</title>
		<link>http://gothamschools.org/2012/08/17/tenure-rate-holds-steady-but-just-42-teachers-denied-on-first-try/comment-page-1/#comment-376453</link>
		<dc:creator>BK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2012 22:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gothamschools.org/?p=89884#comment-376453</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think most of you are missing the point of what is happening. Denying tenure is not about quotas nor it is about good teaching. It is about control and manipulation to achieve goals of everyone BUT the teachers and students. If you are not tenured, best believe you are coming in early and leaving at 6. Coming in on weekends with no pay. You better be young with no kids if you are not tenured because best believe you are not seeing your kids. Passing kids who do not deserve it in fear. Letting kids curse you and act unruly, but pretend its ok because you want tenure.  This is all about control. Problem is the union is doing nothing about this.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think most of you are missing the point of what is happening. Denying tenure is not about quotas nor it is about good teaching. It is about control and manipulation to achieve goals of everyone BUT the teachers and students. If you are not tenured, best believe you are coming in early and leaving at 6. Coming in on weekends with no pay. You better be young with no kids if you are not tenured because best believe you are not seeing your kids. Passing kids who do not deserve it in fear. Letting kids curse you and act unruly, but pretend its ok because you want tenure.  This is all about control. Problem is the union is doing nothing about this.</p>
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