Comments on: City dissolves fleet of “master” and “turnaround” teachers

By: Sdoyle1

Sdoyle1 — Mon, 06 Aug 2012 12:33:00 +0000

I think Norm is saying classic propaganda techniques are being effectively used by the education reform crowd. Remember! Modern propaganda was essentially an American experiment perfected by Edward Bernayes to sell WW1 to a reluctant populace. The term “propaganda” was routinely used until it got a bad rap due to the rise of the Nazis. The term was replaced by the more innocent sounding catchall, “public relations”

By: Nyc

Nyc — Sat, 04 Aug 2012 13:37:00 +0000

Awesome! At my school, the turnaround teacher didn’t do nothing except collect extra money. PEACE!

By: Vote NO!

Vote NO! — Fri, 03 Aug 2012 02:23:00 +0000

” I don’t think “the private sector” is a monolith with one set of
motivations, I don’t think “the private sector” always has an interest
in driving down worker compensation as much as possible, and I don’t
think “the private sector” needs to drive down public sector
compensation to drive down the compensation of its own workforces.”

To respond
First sentence…Yes it is! PROFITS are the motivation. Cost conatinment is as important as revenue growth to any corporate board
Second sentence..It should see that driving down wages in an aggregate sense isn’t in its long term interest..But it’s evident that it doesn’t! ..Long term in American corporate culture is “next quarter’s earnings report.”..see answer to ” first sentence.”
Last sentence…Yes it does need to drive down public sector wages and benefits…The public sector competes for workers with the private sector..It keeps upward pressure on wages when you have public sector labor demand. It also requires taxation to pay for it ..Think of WW2 ending the Great Depression. The massive number of men called up for military service along with massive government expenditures for the military to fight the war “dried up” the ranks of the unemployed, and ended the Depression.

It’s not hyperbole..It’s the current economic state of affairs.
Until it changes, things will only get worse in this country.

I don’t know what Norm’s pension allowance is. I do know he earned it under the rules which were established at the time of his employment. But I do know… he , and every other pensioner in this country doesn’t spend a dime of it in a “government run store.” Pension allowances, like Social Security checks” are used for private sector consumption which benefits the economy.

By: Mr. Flerporillo

Mr. Flerporillo — Fri, 03 Aug 2012 01:13:00 +0000

Reagan, phew, at least I can stop worrying about the Nazis now.

In all seriousness, people who malign everything “government” are silly, just as are people who malign everything “corporate.” Like it or not, we need government and we need corporations. And like it or not, we need to be critical of both. I don’t think “the private sector” is a monolith with one set of motivations, I don’t think “the private sector” always has an interest in driving down worker compensation as much as possible, and I don’t think “the private sector” needs to drive down public sector compensation to drive down the compensation of its own workforces. It’s tempting to pin all the recent bad developments for public employees on Koch Industries, mass media, and bad faith, but Koch Industries isn’t the reason why new teachers won’t get to enjoy retirement on a 75K annual allowance like Norm does.

So, yes, you’re being a bit hyperbolic, but that’s fine, because the growing and often astonishing gap in wealth between the hyper-rich and the rest of us slobs is concerning, and it drives most of us to hyperbole once and again.

By: Vote NO!

Vote NO! — Thu, 02 Aug 2012 23:22:00 +0000

The education “reform” movement is just part of the privatization movement over the past 30 years. Ever since Ronald Reagan stated that “government is the problem.” There has been a non-stop onslaught by the private sector to malign everything “government.” Public sector employment provides alternative opportunities for the increasingly mistreated private sector workforce. The oligarchs are ” fiending” to destroy the public sector workforce. If they can erode the wages and benefits of the public sector workers then they can continue to erode wages, and benefits of the private sector. In about a decade or two they should have the entire country down to minimum wage, with no benefits. Then they can attack minimum wage laws, and other century old worker protections. Am I being hyperbolic? What part of the current economic and political state of this country would make someone think otherwise?

By: Mr. Flerporillo

Mr. Flerporillo — Thu, 02 Aug 2012 17:57:00 +0000

I sometimes get caught up in whatever I’m reading. But seriously, Norm — are you saying that you believe the education reform movement is in the early stages of turning “the psychology of an entire nation. . . into something so frightening as to be almost incomprehensible”? That seems a bit overstated, don’t you think? Maybe next we’ll see Gideon Stein or Ken Hirsch point out Nazi overtones in the anti-reformers’ assertions that the reform movement is backed by evil bankers who represent interests of “the 1%” over the common man. Maybe it reminds them of Goebbels’s attacks on the Rothschilds and the Jewish bankers who bent markets and politics to their will “though they make up only 1% of the population of the Earth.”

Or are you just saying that modern mass-market advertising is something that exists? I do agree with that point.

By: Norm

Norm — Thu, 02 Aug 2012 17:02:00 +0000

I want to jump in one more time on the Germany in the 20′s/30′s references. I’ve read more of Andrew Nagorski’s “Hitlerland” which chronicles what Americans on the scene were writing and saying. What is especially relevant to us is how the psychology of an entire nation was turned around so relatively quickly and turned into something so frightening as to be almost incomprehensible. There are so many lessons in how this happened in the extreme to what was a highly cultured people. And the group psychothought when effectively manipulated can take place in a relative instant. the tactics used from the big lie to targeting scapegoats have become classic. And if people don’t see how the ed deform movement have used these same tactics they are missing something. What many of us in the union object to about our own leadership is how long they have ignored or obfuscated or been ineffective in countering this to such an extent that I often think they are on the other side though I waffle back and forth on that. I guess given the history of so many people who were targets of Hitler and made excuses or tried to appease the Nazis is part of the psychology of warfare. What we in the union have seen is appeasement and pleas to collaborate. Witness the past weekend AFT convention greeting of Joe Biden in Detroit where the union has been mangled and the Chicago Teacher union resistance to Biden as I’ve chronicled on ed notes was something to behold.

By: NYC Educator

NYC Educator — Wed, 01 Aug 2012 17:04:00 +0000

Well, I too have taught for many years – really trying to push the envelope to improve teaching. Back when nobody was really watching, we made a lot of progress with our students, working extraordinarily hard. I love teaching and I’ve loved much of the work over the years, but things have become more and more difficult, and I’ve found less and less support over the years. Being in the Master Teacher program made me feel like there was hope – that I would be supported in doing the difficult work of improving teaching and learning, that I would be able to shape things for the better. Now, after the program has been yanked with little information form anyone, I feel like my work and expertise in not valued. Over and over I’ve committed myself to initiatives to improve teaching and learning – but the support always gets dropped. I just don’t have faith anymore that I will be allowed to do what it takes for my students to be successful. I’m tired of being on the front lines while those back at headquarters keep changing the plan, don’t support the plans that they ask us to commit to, and seem more interested in making themselves look good, maintaining their power by scapegoating me, than truly improving teaching and learning.

By: Nycdoenuts

Nycdoenuts — Wed, 01 Aug 2012 16:59:00 +0000

ASDF; Master teachers spent less time in the classroom and were paid more.

By: TRUTH HURTS +++

TRUTH HURTS +++ — Wed, 01 Aug 2012 15:13:00 +0000

OK, really, this is my last post, hahaaa. Mary, thanks for being a sport. I mean no disrespect to you or anyone else on here. I am so sick of the efforts going for nothing. You should hold a position down at Tweed. People like you should be in control, yet day after day we see the failures with no experience who are just puppets making 6 figures. It really stinks!
The president needs to step in and see the state of emergency that this mayor has put us in. It’s a disaster and few people speak the truth. Too bad I cannot give you my name since I’m a 6 figure individual myself watching this nightmare on a constant basis.
I salute you but I have to hide also, sorry. I am outnumbered significantly. Keep up the great work!

BTW, how do you like how I switched it up? I hope I have empowered you today. This is my job! I will not respond further so take care and keep the dreams alive, if you wish.

By: Mary Conway-Spiegel

Mary Conway-Spiegel — Wed, 01 Aug 2012 14:48:00 +0000

Not Jennifer Anniston please! You’re right on each and every count and I love your brutal honesty – love it!
I’m under not one single illusion or fantasy at all ever – I can assure you of that. I know exactly where I stand, I know the last decade has been the worst bad Opera ever produced.
I’ve seen Dangerous Minds, didn’t like that movie either. The Wire…can’t remember which season (perhaps the last), in a Baltimore public school, that’s worth watching.
Three years from now? Hope I make it…

By: TRUTH HURTS +

TRUTH HURTS + — Wed, 01 Aug 2012 14:05:00 +0000

Mary, I applaud your efforts sincerely. I wasn’t directing my words specifically in your direction, however, I have read plenty of your views and others on this site as well. This can easily be made into a heart-warming movie featuring Jennifer Aniston, playing yourself, where she tries to save the world and the little ghetto kids. It aint Hollywood, it’s the Bronx, Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan, and Staten Island.
When you get a chance, watch the movie Dangerous Minds. This movie was one of the worst movies made about schools with a fairy tale ending that could never happen.
Your posts were the same 3 years ago and will be the same 3 years from now. Sad to say, however true. We need “advocates” and we need “vocal people” like yourself for a moment of light, a shining glimse of make believe theatrics. The reality is you and any other “advocate” failed and will always fail because it’s not a fair fight.
The city will play its game, maybe even meet with you and others to “discuss” possibilities on a particular subject. It’s all for show! All outcomes are predetermined before you even meet. The city does not take parents, advocates, community groups, etc into consideration because they don’t have to. This is not a fairy tale, this is reality. It’s more important for a principal to get a letter grade of A or B than to save a child from flunking out of school and dropping out. That’s the reality! Principals turn away kids because they cannot give the principal the grade, they are a liability so they are turned away. This is the TRUTH! Trust me, I see it every single day!!!! The grade is more important than the child. Are you understanding me?
I will respond to your next comment 3 years from now when I see you writing the same crap, again and again and again. The good news is that you’re not the only one. There’s plenty of DREAMERS on here.

By: Sdsf

Sdsf — Wed, 01 Aug 2012 13:21:00 +0000

Master/turnaround teachers spend no less time outside of the classroom than the average teacher. It is a position that compensates additional time. Your comments are false.

By: Mary Conway-Spiegel

Mary Conway-Spiegel — Wed, 01 Aug 2012 11:42:00 +0000

BTW, thank you for asking…best question/observation of the year. Really. Haven’t stopped thinking about your response/challenge.

By: Hamelvanessa

Hamelvanessa — Wed, 01 Aug 2012 11:11:00 +0000

Hey now this was fun to read. I teach in Queens but live in one of the three “other” regions you mention. You’re 100% right on! I, along with my neighbors in my community are to powerful and intellegent to be jerked around as these city parents are. This would never ever happen in my school district. Administrators would lose their jobs. Period!!

By: Mary Conway-Spiegel

Mary Conway-Spiegel — Wed, 01 Aug 2012 01:44:00 +0000

The TRUTH? The ga-zillions of dollars spent on improving “parent involvement” is also a distraction. Even in Westchester, someone somewhere right now is complaining about lack of parent involvement…it is and always will be a mysterious distraction…

…that no one talks about truthfully. I could be in the poorest, Non English Speaking Drug Addicted Ex-Con Welfare Accepting most Politically Dis-Enfranchised Community School in the city and STILL well meaning intelligent people everywhere will say in complete earnestness with all the right motivations, “…if we could just get parents involved…”

It feels viscerally awful, but I’m compelled to advocate anyway because I’m not over it yet.

By: T5yuir

T5yuir — Wed, 01 Aug 2012 01:39:00 +0000

Take my word on this. These are people who are looking to get out of the classroom.
They realize they can make more money and not have to put up with the nonsense that many teachers have to go through.

By: TRUTH HURTS +

TRUTH HURTS + — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 22:01:00 +0000

Mary, how does it feel, as a parent and “advocate”, to know that you’ve been writing on here for years and there has been no progress? I’ve read your comments and others for so long and it’s the same ol’ song and dance. Nothing is changing nor ever will. Time to get over it. You and so many others on here need to delete this site from your computer as it’s unhealthy. This system is a total farse with make believe characters. Nothing you or anyone else does can effect the predetermined outcome on any of a variety of topics that come up, which are all fake and for show. The city top guns are animals who have no class and disregard parents. The truth is Mary, the city brass at the DOE all know that about 95% of NYC parents are either Non English speaking, Drug Addicts, Collecting Welfare Services, Jailed, or any other low class terms you’d like to consider. Sad, but true! Due to this, the city can get away with anything they like and THEY KNOW IT. I specifically hear things in certain offices.
Do you think this nonsense would happen for a moment just north of the city? In Westchester County, pick a school district. The parents would be going bezerk and the school officials in those towns KNOW IT. Those parents are for the most part, on the ball. Let’s go lower. Do you think in Long Island the parents would tolerate such nonsense? NO WAY!!! The parents are just to active, to involved. The systems in the neighboring areas of NYC are well aware that they can’t mess with the parents. How about over the bridge in Rockland County? Top districts in Clarkstown, Nyack, etc? What do you think? Same situation!
Only in NYC can you have new plans every day, let’s see what happens mentality, union vs. tweed. Only here can you have models for “turnaround” and “closures” and all types of other twisted creations. Do you know why?
Yes, that’s correct. The parents are SUBPAR. That’s the truth, like it or not. You better all believe it’s the damn truth!

By: Mary Conway-Spiegel

Mary Conway-Spiegel — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 19:02:00 +0000

The whole point of all this was, from the beginning, to de-stabilize everyone all the time. ”Look over here, we are distracting you while we change everything and call it ‘better.’” It worked once a long time ago – parents, guardians, advocates, students, even the goldfish got wise, yet ed policy experts keep doing the same magic trick – even though we’re not fooled.
I truly wish parents yelling and screaming were enough…but in the areas where NYCDOE has eviscerated Traditional Public Education – like most of the Bronx – “Parents” don’t exist. School is home. School is parents. School is stability. School is community. School is a healthy meal. SCHOOL IS HOME.
None of the money was meant for the thousands of children who call school home. ARIS, Re-Start, Turnaround, Progress Reports, Test Prep, High Stakes Testing…the money paid for the distractions.

By: Mr. Flerporillo

Mr. Flerporillo — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 18:53:00 +0000

I’ll accept ill-tempered or ornery, but not churlish.

The books I’ve read about the rise of Nazism and fascism in that time period are probably the source of my distaste for Nazi analogies. They almost never accomplish what analogies are designed to accomplish, i.e. revealing useful and interesting similarities between seemingly unique subjects. They’re designed to incite (assuming your audience doesn’t like Nazis, in which case, what a gaffe!), and will offend anyone not in the mood to be incited. They’re also overused and annoying. It’s like being forced to listen to Achy Breaky Heart, or a subway preacher, or a “George Bush is stoopid” joke. And reducing one of the most fascinating and terrifying chapters in human history to an annoyance is probably the most distasteful thing of all.