Comments on: City-state schism over challenge of needy students grows wider

By: insider knowledge

insider knowledge — Fri, 27 Jul 2012 14:20:00 +0000

The practice that you speak of was stopped a few years after the small schools initiative began. However an independent study used just those schools that were allowed to not take ells and special ed to claim that the small schools that opened were out performing the large HS that closed.

By: guest

guest — Fri, 27 Jul 2012 14:13:00 +0000

How about getting rid of the gifted and talented schools, that also cherry pick their students? Gifted schools bring a fortune to principals and assistant principals. How about sharing the wealth and the gifted students distributed equally throughout the districts? So, we could all have a taste of the pie.

By: BK

BK — Fri, 27 Jul 2012 14:09:00 +0000

Guest, no one said that teachers should not be held accountable, to a degree. But what is going on now is teachers are the ONLY ones accountable. Students are free to do as they please and still be given a pass. Parents are allowed to collect government checks while never even stepping foot in their child’s school. There needs to be accountability across the board.

By: old teach

old teach — Fri, 27 Jul 2012 14:00:00 +0000

I do not question your schools progress however, check the data on many of the new schools that opened within schools the DOE closed. The majority avoided esl/ell and special needs students, and their numbers were inflated as the cohort of freshman after four years were diminished by administrative transfers, dropouts that may or may not have counted toward their graduation rates, and credit manipulation. Also, if the DOE ever really maintained accurate numbers the incidents regarding school safety sky rocketed in many of the high schools adversely effected by the closing of neighborhood schools.

By: guest

guest — Fri, 27 Jul 2012 13:51:00 +0000

This argument about the kids as the determining factor in a school’s success needs to stop. Don’t you realize that if no one can be blamed or rewarded for the success of students, except the students themselves (even if true), then the public’s going to feel it justifiable to replace veteran teachers with cheap and inexperienced teachers? That is what you’re essentially suggesting. Why bloat up the public payrolls with great teachers if cheap new teachers can produce the same results in the environment you describe?

By: insider knowledge

insider knowledge — Fri, 27 Jul 2012 13:21:00 +0000

Incorrect to a point old teach. I teach in a new school and was teaching in the old school the new school is in. We don’t cherry pick. Our ELL and special ed population is over 23%. We have one of the highest concentrations in the city. Oh and we are on the upper west side in the same campus as Frank McCourt HS.

By: Mary Conway-Spiegel

Mary Conway-Spiegel — Fri, 27 Jul 2012 10:24:00 +0000

…if that kid has “parents.”

95% of teachers can educate students who behave civilly and are prepared to learn, they cannot overcome poverty, disenfranchisement and culture shock, teach to the test and, oh yeah, educate a student.

By: Amazing

Amazing — Fri, 27 Jul 2012 10:16:00 +0000

Sternberg has got to go. His lies here and his failure with the 24 closing schools should be enough to send him packing. Just how connected is his family to Bloomberg?

By: guest

guest — Fri, 27 Jul 2012 05:21:00 +0000

Yogi Berra was once aked, “What makes a good manager?” The astute Mr. Berra thought about it for a moment and then out came his wisdom. “Good ball players.” What makes a good school? “Good students.” (And just to makie sure you understand, that doesn’t mean the kids have to be 3′s and 4′s. It means the kids have to be civil and come to school daily prepared to make an effort to learn. And 95% of the teachers can help them learn. But when a teacher’s first role is to try to establish some sort of discipline that parents should have done before the kid reached school and when the parents don’t back up what the teacher is doing, nobody can be blamed for that kid not learning but the kid and his or her parents.

By: Guest

Guest — Fri, 27 Jul 2012 01:12:00 +0000

too busy protecting ineffective teachers

By: BK

BK — Fri, 27 Jul 2012 00:37:00 +0000

Here is my problem, this is obvious. Where is the union.

By: BK

BK — Fri, 27 Jul 2012 00:35:00 +0000

What a joke this whole thing is. I mean this is not rocket science. If a team does not have good players, you do not expect a championship. I mean come on. It takes all these “experts” to argue this?? And Sternberg and the cronies know very well that the schools with needy kids that “succeed”, just cheat better. Crazy stuff.

By: Youdontneedtoknow

Youdontneedtoknow — Fri, 27 Jul 2012 00:20:00 +0000

Guest (and Mary) ….. both correct! If John King really wants to see this plan in action all he has to do is visit the brand new shiny schools opening up this September and look at their enrollment data. Over the counters? Not. High Sp Ed?
Absolutely not!

If high needs students were equitably distributed across the district and charter schools, perhaps support services would be as common as having a teacher in the building. Until that happens, there will continue to be the “haves” and the “have-nots”.

By: Mary Conway-Spiegel

Mary Conway-Spiegel — Fri, 27 Jul 2012 00:05:00 +0000

It’s called “warehousing.” For years all of us who advocate for “failing” schools have been telling everyone and anyone who will listen this is happening. Columbus, Robeson, Jamaica, Lehman, and on and on and on. My testimony, which never got heard today, even though I submitted it in advance and was in a seat an hour early:
“Make mandatory AND enforce enrollment of a cross-section of Level 1-4 students in all local High Schools, ending the practice of ‘warehousing’ students who happen to be the neediest and most academically challenged.”If Mr. Sternberg is referring to Truman High Schools’s success, (which is often cited as the premier example of “similar demographics, excelling and thriving…”) he is correct, but look at how Truman is nestled geographically inside Co-Op City and has an ELL population of 9.3%…Christopher Columbus High School has an ELL population of 16.2%…”But Sternberg said today that the recent changes were aimed at offering more choices to over-the-counter students and their families, not distributing high-need students more equitably.” Many, not all, but many, O.T.C. students don’t have “families.” They are homeless, live with cousins/friends, are recently released from prison, are emancipated adults, have children of their own, deal with abuse/violence in their “homes,” are afraid to go “home,” work a job to support their “family” while going to High School – wake up and smell the poverty. This population doesn’t leave for school at 8:15 with breakfast in their belly, a bagged lunch in their backpack and close a white picket fence and walk to school.With All Due Respect it is ONLY through DISTRIBUTING/enrolling HIGH NEEDS STUDENTS MORE EQUITABLY that we will ever see the end of this type of segregation and authentic positive outcomes for the neediest youth of our great city.

By: old teach

old teach — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 23:03:00 +0000

The problem that the state is addressing has been on going during the Bloomberg administration of the public schools. Sam Friedman of the NY Times wrote a piece about the impact that the closing Lafayette High School had on nearby Dewey High School, a school that the city tried to turnaround but has been stopped. This story can be seen at almost every school the DOE has closed. The new smaller schools cherry pick their incoming classes and avoid students with hard or special needs in order to show statistical advancement that the DOE mandates or face closing. This policy will be one of the enduring legacies of the Bloomberg administration once he leaves office and the true story of his policies become known to the public. Commissioner King may have limired success with the DOE in correcting this problem but for the many students and communities effected there is only the fallacy that the DOE continues to impress upon the public. There is a racial as well as a social component to this policy as noted by the growing achievement gap within the city test scores recently released.

By: guest

guest — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 23:00:00 +0000

This has bveen going on for decades say in Brooklyn. They had two lists of schools. When the otc with very scanty records, if any, came in at high school age, they had one list of schools to send these kids to. If the kid seemed to be a fairly good student, interpret that any way you want, they had a second list of schools to send the kids to. There is a reason schools like Midwood, Madison, Murrow rarely received over the counter kids while Erasmus, Wingatel, Jefferson, Tilden and then later on South Shore and Canarsie did. In this, as with so much else, Sternberg is a liar and he knowss it. Nothing has changed. Every time they murdered a school, they sent the kids who these “wonderful” new schools didn’t take to the next list of schools on their list they wished to destroy. It’s the modern domino theory at work. Everybody knows this has been going on and now that they’re caught, they try to deny it. Give us a break.