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Comments of the (last) week: Turnaround-on-turnaround edition

Every week, we try to offer positive reinforcement to readers who have posted comments that help us meet our goal of elevating public dialogue about education. But on Friday, we were derailed by news that an arbitrator had reversed hiring decisions at 24 “turnaround” schools, undoing more than five months of Department of Education changes at the schools.

So far, our story about the arbitration has received more than 210 comments, making it the third-most-commented-upon GothamSchools story ever (behind this and this). Some of those comments do not meet our standards, but lots of them do. We’ve collected a sampling of thoughtful, substantive, and informed comments here.

Some commenters focused on the schools’ unsteady futures. “CJ” wrote,

While I agree, this was a great victory (although of course one can ask why the UFT cooperated in the first place by serving on the 18D committees which would have held up that process), one has to ask what will come next. Will the UFT throw its members under the bus by not working to put in place a teacher evaluation sysem that will protect teachers from the fury of unqualified principals of which there are so many in this system? What will happen when Bloomberg tries to close these 24 schools as he is almost sure to do now as his final parting show of disdain for the staff, parents and kids of this city? This saga is still to be written.

“Dazed and confused” speculated about a potential irony that could emerge this summer:

Does anyone have a clue as to what may happen next? I am at one of the schools. The young people were kept; the old people were tossed to the curb. I would think this now reverses itself and the old folks stay and the youngsters hit the open market. If this was not so tragic it would be hysterically funny.

“Good job Mike!” predicted the same irony in more biting terms:

We all know these schools had some dead weight in these schools. Now these teachers will be back in schools where enrollment is down and excessing will be common, mostly eliminating your younger teachers. The ratio of dead weight teachers will be at an all time high in these schools.

Why would the schools lose some teachers even if the city is not requiring them to? A user posting as “guest” explained:

I am aware what the funds were used for as I work in what was a transformation school. The transformation money was making a huge difference. Without extra funding, the school is now on its own with a budget based on enrollment. The enrollment is so low because of all the bad publicity, that the school has excessed as many as 3 teachers in every area (except sped), family workers (2), school aides (3) and secretaries (4 )and 2 AP’s.

“Burned” responded with a slightly different take but the same conclusion:

Guest: I’m glad the SIG money was making a difference in your school. In our school, we did not feel it was helping our students, and that’s the bottom line. I’m glad we both agree it is DOE’s negative spin on our schools — not loss of SIG — that is causing drop in enrollment, and excessing.

Teachers who reclaim their jobs will be returning in many cases to work under principals who told them not to come back. “Claudius” offered one picture of what this could mean:

I’ve wondered also what it would be like if the UFT won and the 80% non-rehired teachers were to return to face a principal who has now lost any credibility among his staff. All the teachers I know will be prepared to pitch right in so students especially don’t suffer as they always have shown the highest dedication. But I’m not sure I can forget the dishonesty and deceit that the principal used to make sure many fine teachers received unsatisfactory observations just before June. So the relations with the administration promises to be … awkward?

“Someone who cares” offered condolences to a group of people that some had painted as villains during the rehiring processes:

I have to say I have pity for all those 18D committees who sat and interviewed people for 6 hours a day to have it be all done in vain. What a waste of time for these people and I feel bad for some teachers in our school who chose to retire so they wouldn’t have to go through all of this. They didn’t want to retire and now they didn’t have to.

A reader posting as “guest” (not the same one who wrote about his school’s funding above) identified himself as a union representative on one of the 18-D committees. He wrote,

I was the UFT rep on one of those committees. I accept your pity, and deserve it. I was a pitiful character, sitting among enemies, passing judgment on friends, many of whom are probably fine teachers but poor interviewers. But, never mind my suffering. Reserve all sympathy for the educators who were so humiliated and demoralized by this sham process. When the news of our victory came down, our UFT office exploded in cheers, tears, and jubilation.

And when commenters asked a regular who posts as “Mr. Flerporillo” and identifies himself as a lawyer to weigh in on the future of the Bloomberg administration’s bid to overhaul the schools, here’s how he responded:

Not much to say. Right now there’s no opinion; just an award. But there appear to have been two issues: (1) whether the dispute was arbitrable and (2) the merits of the dispute. Looks like the DOE got its clock cleaned on both. The DOE might conceivably have some chance of success on appeal on the first issue, depending on the details of the arbitration provision that the union claims was the basis of the DOE’s agreement to arbitrate the dispute, but I wouldn’t bet on it. On the merits, the DOE is toast. You can’t overturn an arbitral tribunal’s ruling unless you can show the process was patently unfair, which it almost assuredly wasn’t. Game over, huge loss for Bloomberg.

  • http://twitter.com/leoniehaimson leonie haimson

    I’d like to know from someone on one of the hiring committees what they really based their decisions on: was it how teachers answered the canned questions on common core etc; was it on how expensive the candidates were, with experienced teachers rejected over younger ones; was the process completely controlled by the DOE and/or the principal, or was the process collaborative?

  • TeachmyclassMrMayor

    Funny, you guys had 210 comments on the story, and yet, despite the size of the story (in terms of how many were effected) shockingly, NOT ONE comment on the story at the Daily News Website…or were the comments so in favor of the UFT, that the editors, in the tank for the mayor, decided to not publish the comments?

  • bee

     I see comments in the DN website.

  • Sergio Zamora

    Only those of us working at the impacted schools know what the environment was like.  Teachers by nature, passed on the feeling to the students who also felt the impact of the stupidity of this mayor.  If the state tests were not stressful enough for our students, imaging adding the confusion of which teachers will stay and which one were leaving.  Yes, we as staff were affected, this chaos was directed to us, but who though of the impact this would have on the students.  Some of our students went form stressful situations at home to chaos at school,  the sole environment which is supposed to provide them with safety and stability.  

  • TeachmyclassMrMayor

     Really? I keep looking, and do not see any. I will look again.

  • http://nyceducator.com/ NYC Educator

     18D says process is supposed to be collaborative, and that decisions should be consensual. Should be 2 DOE, 2 UFT and principal. Optionally there can be a parent and another member of school community. I understand at Flushing that turned out to be an administrator, which kind of skewed the balance. Questions should be based on selection criteria for each school. Experience and expense would not be included therein. Of course theory and practice need not meet, ever, and my sources at Flushing tell me there was a lot of rejection, much more than I’d have expected.

  • Turnaround Teacher

    At Lehman it was the same. About 40% were deemed “unqualified,” including the chapter leader, delegates, uft consultation committee, and anyone else outspoken. The same happened at Bryant. On the flip side about 95% of the untenured teachers were deemed “qualified…”the balance was clearly tipped by added the “other member of school community” which was an assistant principal. It basically made it 4 DOE vs 2 UFT with the parent likely being the only completely unbias one.

  • TeachmyclassMrMayor

     Found them, they were buried.

  • Turnaround Observer

    The teachers at my turnaround school knew that the “new” school wasn’t new at all, but the school’s administration went through such long and elaborate hiring and planning procedures,  we really thought there was little chance of the UFT prevailing in the arbitration proceeding.  If the UFT had lost, its members were prepared (by the UFT) to act accordingly.  Why can’t the mayor do the same?

    A reasonable person not involved in education would assume from the mayor’s speeches that many older, more experienced teachers are not qualified to teach.  But try to think of a profession/job in which experience does not improve the professional.  Accountants, doctors, lawyers, butchers, bakers, and candlestick makers are all better after a few years in the business.  But the reasonable person might counter that it’s true that experience helps teachers, but there is a point at which additional experience does not add much to the teacher’s expertise and what if the teacher just doesn’t feel like working hard anymore?  It appears that many people are not aware that there is a process for removing teachers from the classroom.  It is a long and difficult process designed to ensure that the teacher is not being removed for any reason other than teaching effectiveness (criticizing the administration, being active in UFT affairs, etc.)

    It is hard to listen to politicians trying to explain very complex problems and their solutions in sound bites.  Our children deserve better.

  • Guest

    at the school i am involved with the agreement was teachers should be able to communicate well. thus interview and coverletters mattered. sadly coverletters from a number of teachers did not demonstrate mastery of writing and communiction. Since interview questions are hard to prove, the cover letter became the key between the principal and uft, especially with regards to ELA teachers. 

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