GothamSchools — daily independent reporting on NYC public schools

food for thought

February 21, 2012

Students say 2 p.m. is too late for lunch, but state law is murky

by Rachel Cromidas, at 4:02 pm

The schedule at Paul Robeson High School.

Students at Paul Robeson High School are served lunch at 2 p.m. or later. As we reported earlier this month, many students at the phasing-out school say the schedule leaves them hungry and unable to focus on classwork by the second half of the school day.

“Later in the day, my stomach [is] talking to me, and the teacher is talking to me at the same time,” senior Akeem Pearce told me. “I don’t know who to listen to.”

Our readers asked whether it is legal for a city school to serve lunch so late in the day. The short answer is yes, according to the letter of the law — but maybe not according to the spirit.

State law governing school lunch schedules does not specify a window of time for serving lunch, but rather requires that schools serve lunch at a “reasonable time,” which could vary from community to community.

Overcrowding and co-locations — which ask multiple schools stationed in the same building to share a single cafeteria, gym and auditorium — have caused some schools to complain that they are unable to schedule lunch at a reasonable time.

In response to complaints about the lunch schedule at Manhattan’s P.S. 116, which is severely overcrowded, Assemblyman Brian Kavanagh introduced a bill last March that would require schools to serve lunch within a specific time window.

Under Kavanagh’s bill, schools couldn’t schedule students for lunch until at least two and one-half hours after the start of the school day, and all students would have to have a lunch break by four hours after the first bell. Under that rule, Robeson would be required to begin serving lunch by 12:30 p.m. at the latest.

“The notion is that if you’re going to have a full school day, you need a break to eat,” Kavanagh told me. “For people who feel like 2 o’clock is not a reasonable time, that’s already a violation of state law.”

The bill failed to gain traction during the 2011 legislative session, but Kavanaugh said he hoped his colleagues would discuss it this spring.

Chancellor Dennis Walcott told me after the marathon Panel for Educational Policy meeting Feb. 9 that he could not judge whether 2 p.m. is too late for schools to serve students lunch without knowing a school’s individual situation — and he was not familiar with complaints about Robeson’s lunch hour.

Print Print
  • Michael M. (parent still)

    I’d be interested in seeing overall stats on early lunch / late lunch, by school level (elementary, middle, high).

    I would agree 2:00 PM is too late.  I’d also suggest 9:30 AM is too early, which I’ve heard anecdotally. 

  • NYCParent

    Of course these students can’t focus!  My son didn’t even have a lunch period three days a week last semester, and two days this semester.  Not because he’s overbooked with classes, but because of endless budget cuts!  Students in some schools barely have access to bathrooms!  Still others have no physical activity!  Time for a human rights investigation of the DOE.

  • Flerplunk

    I suggest taking a look at the DOE’s annual financial reports.  You’ll see where the money’s going. 

  • Tiredofyou

    Could you please tell us no wait a few seconds and Larry Littlefield will use this opening to tell us all again and again. 

  • Guest

    In my high school the first lunch period begins before 9:00 AM.

  • Guest

    The money is going to big business and consultants who know nothing and do nothing.  AND writing bad tests.

  • MAB

    IT’S ABOUT LUNCH AT 2PM IF YOU CARE ABOUT KIDS ITS JUST PLAIN WRONG. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANNUAL FINANCIAL REPORTS.
    SOME PEOPLE WHO POST HERE WILL NEVER GET IT.ITS THE STUDENTS WHO SUFFER AND CAN’T CONCENTRATE BUT NOW THE TEACHER’S WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

  • bee

    While Kavanaugh’s bill sounds like a good start, a better bill would address the root of the problem, the punitive co-locations forced upon our public schools, by the DOE.

  • michael

    Lapdog Walcott could not judge whether 2 PM is too late to serve students lunch? It’s because he can’t answer ANY questions without King Bloombuck’s permission. I’m sure his, and Bloombergs children had lunch at reasonable times. I’m also sure that Walcott has lunch well before 2 PM.

  • NYCParent

    MAB — what are you yelling about?  I can’t even tell if you’re agreeing or disagreeing with what I said.  For instance, I said  ”Of course these students can’t focus!”  And you said  ”IT’S ABOUT LUNCH AT 2PM,” (in caps, which I construe as yelling).  So, we’re agreed.  Perhaps you meant to reply to the actual article?

  • old teach

    I once worked at a school were the first lunch was served at 9:15 because the school was so overcrowded. That same year the school had more than 300 over size classes and the administration did nothing about that as they will do nothing about this. When they claim to be the childrens advocate parents should have a food fight directed at the folks in charge of the schools. Children First my A_ _ !

  • MAB

    Just had this great thought. Its all about the kids
    Flerpi junior comes home from his first day at High School with his new program.
    He has lunch at 2pm and there is no gym listed. He asks papa Flerpi why he has to eat his lunch so late and why doesn’t he have a gym class.
    Papa Flerpi answers that all those tier one teachers stole the money years ago and thats why he has to eat so late and has no gym. All those generations greed people are the one”s to blame.
    So Flerpi junior asks his dad “how do you know so much?”.
    His answer “Larry Littlefield told me it was true”. 
    He said it so much it must be true.

  • MAB

    I agree totally with you and Im sorry if you took it wrong. 

  • Flerplunk

    Guest — I’m forever asking people on this site how much money goes to “big business” and “consultants” each year.  Nobody ever answers, presumably because they don’t know.  Do you?

    I know how much DOE money goes to private bus companies each year, though. About one Billion, at last count.  (With a capital B, and that rhymes with p, and that stands for pool.)

  • Flerplunk

    Mab was a teacher, if you can believe it.  Terrifying.

  • MAB

    Tell all those kids to walk especially those special ed kids.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002397245457 Mary Conway-Spiegel

    If a child is homeless and hasn’t had breakfast 2:00 pm is a very long time to wait for a first meal.

  • Transformation Teacher

    At Lehman many of our students have 8th period lunch which begins at you guessed it…2 PM. Others have 3rd period lunch which starts at 9:50. I wonder when our kids will eat next year when we are co located for a second time? It will be fine though since due to turn around we will have highly effective teachers that will be able to motivate our students on empty stomachs.

  • Healthybutdumbandhungry

    Everyone at Tweed & City Hall should be embarrassed. They are the failures! This entire administration (in regards to education) is a failure. I do like the bike lanes and that you can’t smoke in bars anymore.

    There has to be something the public can do other than wait them out!

    Disgusted!

  • Guest

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/13/nyregion/new-york-in-contract-with-pearson-lays-out-rules-for-state-tests.html
    32 million for this one alone—and their tests are full of flaws.  We had to cancel out questions because of no right answers or too many right answers.

  • Tim

    Guest, that’s $32 million over 5 years–not chump change to a household or individual, to be sure, but $6.4 million is approximately 0.03% of the DOE’s annual budget. If you feel that consultants and big business and bad tests are the root cause of the DOE’s budget crisis and the diversion of services away from children, you’re going to have to come up with a hell of a lot more than this example.

  • I noticed that…

    In my school, students who are behind in credits don’t eat lunch because the school have them opt-out of lunch so they can accumulate their credits.  Is this legal?  I think it’s unfair.  I know that the kids are behind in credits but to have them skip lunch is not a healthy approach to academic achievement. 

  • Guest

    Tim, that’s just one contract.

    ARIS: 80 million and useless and they have spent more to fix it.

  • MAB

    Flerplunk
    Day in and day out you prove that your lack of knowledge about the education system is much more then you can handle.When you resort to personal attacks it shows your true colors. I find it terrifying that you are first a lawyer and then a parent.

  • Guest

    seriously though, you were a teacher??

  • Flerplunk

    “Tim, that’s just one contract.”

    Exactly.  Keep going.  How much has been spent on ARIS on an annual basis?  

    To be clear, I’m not defending the DOE.  I just don’t like BS and misdirection.  If the DOE’s finances are a wreck because of consultants and big business, I want to know.  

  • bee

    Let’s not forget the cost of the incessant structural reorganizing that has occurred under the auspices of mayoral control. Assemblymember James Brennan has some interesting “Education Reports” on his site, one in particular comes to mind: “Damaging Missteps and Wasted Funds Under Mayoral Control.”

  • AParent

    Am I the only one who thinks that schools should not be in the business of feeding children? In most other first world nations school always ends before lunch time and the kids go home. In upper grades they would come back later in the afternoon for an additional hour or two (or the kids would bring lunch from home or purchase food at a kiosk). There is something so essentially wrong in our society that schools are put in the situation to remedy every single shortcoming of society. This has to stop at some point.

  • Flerplunk

    There are probably many other points between giving kids lunch and Armageddon at which this can stop.  

Tips, questions, feedback?

Contact us at .

Word from Our Sponsor

Follow GothamSchools

RSS
Subscribe to the daily email digest:

Chalk It Up

Recent Comments

11 comments so far today
View all comments »

Events Calendar

RSS Feeds

Newsroom posts Community posts All GothamSchools content

Archives

May 2013
M T W T F S S
« Apr  
 12345
6789101112
13141516171819
20212223242526
2728293031  

Copyright Notice