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June 8, 2011

NAACP’s Dukes defends suit: “I’m not against charter schools”

by Geoff Decker, at 9:27 am

Hazel Dukes, the president of the NAACP of New York, said last night on NY1 that she supports charter schools but wants equal conditions for children attending district schools.

In a television interview last night, the president of the NAACP of New York insisted that she does not oppose the opening of charter schools or the closure of failing schools — even as she defended her organization’s role in a lawsuit that would reverse planned school closures and slow charter school growth.

Speaking to NY1 Inside City Hall host Errol Louis, Hazel Dukes said that she only wanted district schools to have the same conditions as charter schools, which she praised. “Let’s make it an equal playing field,” she said. “That’s not hard to do. We can do that with the stroke of a pen.”

She added, “My motive is not to keep any failing schools open. My motive has never been to say that teachers who can’t teach need to be in schools. My motive is two things: justice and equality.”

Hazel Dukes said she her goal wasn’t to prevent charters from opening but that the process was hurried. The biggest effect, she said, was overcrowding in school buildings, which she said has a disproportionate — and negative — impact on district school students. ”Mr. Louis, tell me why all children can’t have the same amount of library time. Tell me why all children can’t have access to a playground,” she said.

The lawsuit, which the NAACP co-filed with the United Federation of Teachers and a host of elected officials and parents, aims to halt the closure of 22 district schools and plans to co-locate 20 charter schools inside district space. City school officials have said that a victory could disturb high school admission plans for the fall, and charter school leaders have said that, without the city space that they were counting on, they would not be able to open schools that children already plan to attend.

The appearance was less provocative than Dukes’ previous statements in the last several weeks. At a rally on Friday, Dukes suggested the closures and co-locations amounted to modern-day segregation. Earlier this month, she reportedly accused charter school parents of “doing the work of slave masters.”

On Tuesday evening, Dukes was more conciliatory. She described an effort by former chancellor Joel Klein to take her to visit successful charter schools and praised the schools overall, calling out two charter school networks by name: the Harlem-based Success Academies and Democracy Prep. She said that those schools do a “great job.”

“I’m not against charter schools. Parents have a right for choice,” Dukes said. “What NAACP has been about in its advocacy role has been to ensure that justice and equality is done for everyone. Not just black and brown, but every person, regardless to race, creed or color.”

Louis, who described himself as a life member of the New York NAACP, repeatedly pressed Dukes on her characterization of the lawsuit and the NAACP’s position on charter schools. He pointed out that some students are likely to be displaced from the school they planned to attend if the suit is successful. ”I feel like the lawsuit is actually intended to stop the opening of the charters,” Louis said.

“Well, that’s what you feel,” Dukes replied. “Well, let me tell you —”

“And I think a fair reading of it would support that,” Louis said. “I understand what you said about what your intentions and what your goals are. I don’t know if this lawsuit is going to bring that about, but we will see.”

“It can assist in bringing it about,” she said. “I’m sure it will. And all those children that you say will be deprived of an education, they will not,” she said.

“Mr. Louis, you are losing the point about justice and equality,” Dukes said earlier in the exchange.

Later in the program, Louis interviewed two charter school parents from the Success and Uncommon Schools networks, who presented their opposition to the lawsuit.

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  • Ellen

    except mr lewis did not interview parents from the public schools.   it was not a very balanced presentation, and i am a fan of ny1 news

  • 123_its_easy

    I am in full support of the law suit. I am also not against charters as well but I do oppose that ALL on the 1.1 million in NYC public schools do not have the same opportunities across the board especially in a co-located buildings. Why should have the student population in a co-located school not have the same benefits that as of the charter. The things that charters boast of, science labs, music, and arts are the very things that have and continue to be cut from district schools. The DOE is NOT accountable for their failing schools however sing about the success that charters are bringing. You shouldn’t steal from Paul to feed Peter. All children deserve the same benefits. I do consider this modern day segregation when children are allowed to exist in the same exact building yet they don’t receive the same services. No child should be force to have lunch at 10:00am, have related services rendered in hallways, little to no access to libraries within that same building. I find this outrageous and should be deemed as illegal!!!!!!!!!

  • Seen Enough 1961

    The segregation of students within a building DOES INDEED exist.  I work in a high school in the Bronx which has several mini schools within it.  My school within the building is the original school that was purposely destroyed by removing the best students and being given the worst over the years.  We had a thriving program with so much to offer.  Now, we have nothing!  I would like to personally thank Mr. Eric Nadelstern for this but he’s way to smart to still be around.  He’s gone.  So alas all of the masterminds leave one by one, they leave the mess behind.  Buildings destroyed!  Programs destroyed!  Staff destroyed!  The list is endless.  A new school comes in with fresh EVERYTHING and the original students LOOK IN DISBELIEF and ask “Why don’t we get this stuff?”  Believe me, the students say this every single day.  Hazel Dukes is correct.  There is some serious segregation going on here in NYC schools and it is more obvious than ever.  Nothing is equal.  Nothing is steady.  One school in a building gets the world and three steps away on the same floor in the same building, a school is “phasing out” as the students watch the new brighht and cheery school come right in.  Who in the world allowed this to happen??  Where the hell are the stories about this?  They don’t exist and Gotham, as well as other media sources without the political stronghold over them like the NY POst and Daily News should be reporting this AND THEY ARE NOT. 
    I don’t know anyone in the Gotham Staff but if you’re reading this, please respond and I will contact you for an interview and a personal walkthrough at my school for a breakthrough story!  This system is allowing segregation to exist and unequality to continue EVERY DAY.  It will only get worse.  They took a beautiful building that was thriving with great kids and working programs and sports, etc ….. and totally wiped it out and brought in several schools and chopped up the building into segregated pieces.  WHY??  To demonstrate that the other 5 schools have better graduation rates and we are poor?  Kill one school and flourish the others within the SAME BUILDING??  This is a disgrace!!  Is anyone actually willing to do a real story on a real building in chaos?

  • Shango67

    Agreed. Charter schools in failing and under-enrolled co-located schools are better prepared to educate children at a high level. However, charter schools should not be penalized for doing a better job with less resources. Traditional public schools waste money and resources and cry foul when co-located charter schools do well. The real issue is the disparity between the schools below 96th Street and the schools in Harlem; and that should be the basis of the lawsuit

  • dumpthedoe

    Nobody wants to do the “real story” my friend.  Get over it!  One building – 7 schools – complete chaos and unequality – no one cares!

  • Sinksfelines

    Charters should not be penalized because they BRING IN resources to the system, and because some (not all) DOE schools mismanage funds.

  • Isisiii

    Will people stop saying charters do more with less. It’s not true. Yes they get less PUBLIC money, but they also use private money to fund their schools. Therefore, the actually have more money than public schools.

    I agree with Ms. Dukes’ statement. Charters have begun to divide poor blacks. The ones who have their kids in charters couldn’t care less about those left behind. Well I have news for you. This country is moving to a place where finding for public education will be taken away and charters are going to start charging tuition. What will happen then? The poor will crawl into their hovels and this country will return to the 1800s. This is not my wish. It’s just the reality I see happening.

  • Gdecker

    Hi @995eafb89ada20c2e0ca63d2dffbd157:disqus , I’m very much interested. Please email me – gdecker (at) gothamschools (dot) org – and we can discuss in some more detail what youv’e proposed. – Geoff

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_W2ZAD5LZHKWMZN2DQQHRMQUOSI Jamey

    And that is the point. PEOPLE take control of THEIR responsibilities and pay for it. They do not steal from others thru government and forced taxation!

  • Ken Hirsh

    Fascinating interview.  Dukes repeatedly refers to unequal playground time and library access as the two emblematic reasons for the lawsuit.  On the other hand, she supports charter schools, thinks that HSA and Democracy Prep are “great”, thinks that failing schools should be closed, “bad” teachers shouldn’t be teaching, etc.  In my opinion, the media coverage of this situation has backed the NAACP into a position where it will be difficult for them, over the long term, to achieve any hidden agenda that they might have had.  

  • James K.

    In my high school where there are 5 schools, they appoint school aides to block students from entering the “hall area” space of a separate school that’s on the same floor of another.  It’s so funny to see these 19 year old school aides telling these youngsters that they can’t pass into a particular area of a hall because it turns into a different school if you walk a specific direction.  My goodness, it’s a mess!

  • Michael M. (parent still)

    Ken,

    I dare say, there’s a certain irony in a charter-supporter (and funder?) talking about hidden agendas.

  • Michael M. (parent still)

    Ken,

    I dare say, there’s a certain irony in a charter-supporter (and funder?) talking about hidden agendas.

  • bee

    Despite any “hidden agendas,” you feel that the NAACP might have, they are correct in pursuing this lawsuit. Although Mr. Bloomberg has mayoral control of NYC public schools, he is not above the law. As for the media placing the NAACP in a difficult position, why do you think the media is doing this?

  • BYMC

     The question becomes, what opportunities are charter schools taking away from students who do not have access to them?

    http://youngmotherseducationpolicy.wordpress.com/

  • http://twitter.com/BNiche B

    Though I’m with you on most of this, Isisiii, according to Gothamschools, regardless of any private funds, charters in public school locations actually receive slightly MORE public money than public schools.

    See more here: http://gothamschools.org/2011/02/15/most-city-charters-receive-more-funds-than-districts-study-finds/

    As Anna Phillips wrote in the first paragraph: “Reversing its earlier findings, the city’s Independent Budget Office has concluded in a new study that most New York City charter schools receive more funding per student than their district school peers.”

  • Ken Hirsh

    I don’t think the media (in general) is actively trying to put the NAACP in a difficult position.  Rather, I think that the organization putting the NAACP in a difficult position is the UFT.  The NAACP is probably surprised by the media response.  Of course, my opinions here are of a speculative nature until I perfect my mind-reading skills.

  • Ken Hirsh

    You got me.  My goal is to privatize this comment thread.

  • guest

    And are those all charter schools? If not, do you feel that the co-location of public schools with public schools should cease as well?

  • guest

    Why is co-location always about charters?  Wouldn’t you agree that when PS 9 housed the Anderson Program (white), the G & T program (mixed) and the regular public school (mostly minority) all in one building–none of them charters–that it was true segregation?

  • GC

    The purpose of the media should be getting at the truth and relaying it to the people.  I think it would be far more interesting and valuable to back the Gates Foundation, Eli Broad, DFER, Walton Family / Walmart, Michael Bloomberg, and Rupert Murdoch into a position where it would be difficult for them, over the long
    term, to achieve any hidden agenda they might have.

  • RRStar

    The Harlem community has just lost a choice with the closing of Rice HS.The tabloids which for years championed Catholic schools and the moneyed  interests calling for “choice” and “reform” did not and will not lift a finger to help them. Why? Well I am  mind reader and I can tell you that they see charters as the way to advance their bogus agendas and have no interest in supporting the success of a school with a long record of achievement but a unionized workforce. They will not be satisfied till education is privatized . and is brought in line with the rest of the American economy where the money flows to those at the top -a  $400,000 “CEO”  or “rainmaker” or other such nonsense. Thus the Catholic schools have been shut out of funding and abandoned.

  • Ken Hirsh

    I do think that some reformers have a privatization goal, although, in general, their aim is not to profit from that goal.  (I don’t doubt that there are exceptions.) Rather, they think that privatization is good for society.

    As far as Catholic schools, most of the reformers that want to privatize the system also support school vouchers.  Vouchers, of course, would massively help the finances of good Catholic schools.  In fact, a big component of the voucher movement are people that want to help out Catholic schools.  Given that reality, your comments seem to contain some contradictions.

  • kw10

    Co-locations should be illegal because they create separate and unequal environments within the same school building. Charter schools not only have access to more money than public schools, they do not have to follow the same enrollment procedures as public schools.  Charter schools have the luxury of turning students away and kicking students out who don’t perform.  If the doe insists on having two schools in the same building, they should at least have to follow the same rules with the same financial resources.  Otherwise you are setting up the public school for failure.

  • bee

    I completely agree with you GC! The key word is SHOULD! I also think Mr. Zuckerman can be added to the above list.

  • Vote NO!

    Charter  schools  are the  “snake  oil”  of  the  21st  Century.  Even  the  charter  school  propaganda  film,  “Waiting for  Superman”  had  to  acknowledge  that  80% of  charter  schools  perform  no  better,  or  worse  than  their  public  school  counterparts.  No  school  should  ever  be  forced  to  co-locate  with  another  school.  Especially  one  that  has  and  80%  chance  of  performing  no  better,  or  worse.

  • ASTRAKA

    KW10,
    Your statement
     ”Co-locations should be illegal because they create separate and unequal environments within the same school building” hit the nail on the head.
    In fact, co-locations and charter schools in general push our public school students “to the back of the bus”. NAACP should have challenged this predicament long time ago.

  • KitchenSink

    I’m curious as to why the NAACP hasn’t sued the city over gifted and talented programs.  That’s not even “separate but equal,” it’s more “separate and unequal.”  It just strikes me that the NAACP’s argument is illogical and inconsistent.

  • Vote NO!

    Gifted  and   talented  programs  are  for  students  with  exceptional  abilities.  They  are  open  to  all  children  with  those  abilities.  Charter  schools  being  FORCED  into  buildings  with  public  schools  already  there,  is  to  the  detriment  of  the  public  school,  and  its  students. It  is  not  even  remotely  similar  to  children  being  accepted  into  gifted  and  talented  programs.

  • Michael Fiorillo

    Ken Hirsh,

    In the overwhelming number of cases, those pushing privatization of the schools are among the class of people who stand to benefit economically and politically from the re-ordering of this major institution. How could they think anything but that it would be “good for society?” 

    Only the full-frontal sociopaths and practitioners of real politik might be honest enough with themselves to acknowledge that they’re “in it for the money and power.” As for the others, it’s all altruism (though financed by people with cash registers for brains), because the cognitive dissonance of dealing with the nasty, built-in consequences of corporate ed reform might otherwise be unsettling.

  • 123_its_easy

    ok kitchen sink, we know where your interest lie, and believe me it’s not for the children but rather your pockets!

  • 123_its_easy

    no its very logical especially when Canada is rewarded 60 million dollars of TAX PAYERS dollars after his charter after he kicks out an entire grade for not meeting his CRITERIA of what is considered standard to him. When was the last time a district school kicked out an ENTIRE grade? Please let me know if you come across an article that states that. I would find it very unlikely!!!!!

  • guest

    Former President of OTB Pleads Guilty in Theft CaseBy JOHN SULLIVAN
    Published: October 16, 1997Hazel N. Dukes, the president of the New York State chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People and a former president of the New York City Offtrack Betting Corporation, pleaded guilty yesterday to stealing $13,000 from an OTB employee who was suffering from cancer.
    In a brief appearance in Manhattan Criminal Court, Ms. Dukes, 65, admitted that she embezzled money in 1993 from the bank account of Velma McLaughlin, a former OTB employee, who had given Ms. Dukes power of attorney when Ms. McLaughlin was on disability leave as she battled leukemia.
    As part of an agreement with the Manhattan District Attorney’s office, Ms. Dukes pleaded guilty to one count of attempted grand larceny, a misdemeanor. Judge William Mogulescu said she would not face jail, on the condition that she make full restitution by November. Ms. Dukes had originally faced more serious charges of grand larceny, for which she could have received up to seven years in prison.Ms. Dukes, whose stewardship of OTB made her a prominent and controversial figure in the administration of Mayor David N. Dinkins, spent the money on dry cleaning, car services, flowers and gifts, and for charitable and political donations, including $550 to Mr. Dinkins’s campaign, according to prosecutors.Ms. Dukes offered no explanation for her actions yesterday, but tersely answered questions put to her by Judge Mogulescu. On the courthouse steps after the hearing, she declined to answer questions, other than to say that she agreed to the plea ”to come to a closure with this case.””I am still worthy of the things that I have done and am still doing,” Ms. Dukes said, as her lawyer tried to guide her through a mob of reporters and photographers. Ms. Dukes said she would not resign from her position at the civil rights organization, which she has held since 1977. A person who answered the telephone at the New York State chapter of the N.A.A.C.P. yesterday said the organization had no comment on the case.The management of OTB under Ms. Dukes was the subject of vigorous attacks from Rudolph W. Giuliani in his bid to unseat Mr. Dinkins. Mr. Giuliani contended that the agency, a perennial moneymaker, lost money under Ms. Dukes, although the claim was disputed by her supporters.Prosecutors said that when Ms. Dukes was OTB president in 1993, Ms. McLaughlin gave her the authority to manage her account at the OTB credit union.Between March and December of that year, Ms. Dukes made numerous withdrawals from the account, which she acknowledged in court were for her personal use. All the money was withdrawn in relatively small amounts, typically between $100 and $500. At the time, Ms. Dukes’s salary at OTB was $104,000.Prosecutors said that Ms. McLaughlin learned of the theft when she applied for Social Security benefits. After officials denied her the benefits based on her income at OTB, Ms. McLaughlin learned that her real income was far higher than that forwarded to her by Ms. Dukes.Ms. McLaughlin complained to the OTB inspector general, who forwarded the case to the Manhattan District Attorney. No address or telephone number could be obtained yesterday for Ms. McLaughlin.Yesterday, associates of Ms. Dukes said they were saddened to hear of the case, but said it would not affect their relationship with her.”I consider her a valuable friend and colleague, someone who I believe in strongly, who has been an effective advocate for civil rights,” said Dennis M. Walcott, president of the New York Urban League.Mr. Dinkins said he last talked to Ms. Dukes about the case several months ago. ”I don’t know what her version is,” he said. ”I am confident that she is going to tell me that what she was doing she was authorized to do. The Hazel I know would not just take someone’s money, small or large. She would just not do that.”Mr. Dinkins also questioned whether, since Ms. Dukes was willing to make restitution, the matter could have been handled in civil court rather than with criminal charges. ”It is just sad,” he said, ”that a woman who has done so much good for so many people over such a long period of time would have a matter such as this that could not be resolved in a different fashion.”

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