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teachable moment (with video)

June 3, 2011

A teacher evaluation panel dissolves early after dissent

by Geoff Decker, at 12:02 pm

A panel discussion that featured officials on each side of the teacher evaluation stand-off was halted abruptly last night after a disagreement escalated. The disruption did not stem from the teachers union and Department of Education official on the panel, but from a small group of audience members protesting the event itself.

“Okay, I’m going to cut it off,” said moderator Evan Stone, following a crescendo of interruptions that built up for nearly five minutes. Stone is a founder of Educators 4 Excellence, which hosted the event. “Clearly, we’ve broken a lot of norms of respectability.”

The interruptions came from at least three people in an audience of more than 100, most of them teachers. They began in response to Stone’s handling of the panel and then escalated into an airing of grievances that targeted Educators 4 Excellence and its teacher evaluation recommendations, released yesterday, which the protesters said did not reflect their views.

“I am a teacher and I have never been asked what I thought,” yelled out Stuart Kramer Kaplan, one of the protesters.

(Click here for video of the exchange.)

Educators 4 Excellence is an advocacy group of teachers who hold shared views on education policy, many of which — like the group’s position against seniority-based layoffs — challenge traditional teachers union orthodoxy. Led by Teach For America alumni who are no longer in the classroom, the group has quickly gained a high profile with the support of national philanthropists, including the Gates Foundation.

The group organized the panel as part of its efforts to influence the teacher evaluation debate. Panelists included Shael Polakow-Suransky,  the senior deputy chancellor at the Department of Education, and Leo Casey, the vice president of the United Federation of Teachers. Their respective organizations have not been able to hammer out an agreement on details of a teacher evaluation system. The panel also included a teacher, principal, and education consultant.

Earlier in the day, E4E released its own set of recommendations, which served as a major talking point for much of the evening.

For at least the first 90 minutes, those efforts created a productive dialogue. Polakow-Suransky and Casey engaged in a polite and wide-ranging conversation about best practices for improving instructional performance.

They reached consensus on the urgency for establishing new evaluation guidelines as well as the importance of more frequent classroom observations by school leaders and colleagues.

Polakow-Suransky stopped short of endorsing a recommendation by Educators 4 Excellence that teachers should be observed by outside consultants. He said that the estimated costs would reach upwards of $75 million annually. The cost of consulting contracts is a major target of City Council members pushing to avoid teacher layoffs by suggesting other cuts.

Towards the end of the evening, a brief dispute between Polakow-Suransky and Casey seemed to trigger the outbursts.

After Casey argued for keeping lawyers out of negotiations, Polakow-Suransky swiped back, reminding him that hours earlier the UFT filed a temporary restraining order to prevent the DOE from moving forward with any closure or co-location plans. (We’ll have more on the restraining order later today.)

“One arrives at litigation when the education process breaks down,” replied Casey.

Kramer and Michael Friedman, a union chapter leader, then intervened and went on to criticize the research methods of E4E.

“They didn’t ask us for our opinions. The leadership just came up with a position without any other teachers,” Friedman said.

Two research surveys were sent to E4E members by the policy team, according to Stone.

With the floor now unintentionally open to public comment, many audience members jumped to the defense of E4E and the panel.

“You have to leave. You have to go,” said one man, to applause.

After the panel broke, organizers downplayed it as an isolated incident. Others said they were shocked.

“I thought it was totally inappropriate,” said Emily Bisso, a teacher at Ocean Hill Collegiate, a Brooklyn school within the Uncommon Schools network.

A group of young charter school teachers said that they had mixed feelings about the panel, but agreed that it ended on a low note.

“I guarantee that was just pent-up frustration,” said Miatta Massaley, a teacher at  Harlem Success Academy 5 charter school. “It was inappropriate how they went about it, but they had legitimate concerns.”

“That’s exactly the opposite of what we teach our kids,” said Jarell Lee, a teacher at the Excellence Boys Charter School in Bedford Stuyvesant. “We teach them that there are better strategies to handle situations where they feel frustrated.”

Correction: The originally published version of this article characterized the majority of the audience as being charter school teachers. The report was based on interviews with teachers who identified as charter school teachers. According to a survey conducted by people who RSVP’d for the event, the characterization is not accurate. Ten charter school teachers attended the event, according to the survey, out of a total of 117 people.

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  • Guest

    Good point about the charter school teachers operating outside of the evaluation system.

    Who is the E4E goon that stands over the person asking the question like a bouncer at a bar?

  • 15 year vet

    Apparently the “norms of respectability” is eduspeak for “allow the Gates patsy to speak and be quiet.”

  • John Galvin

    I wonder if the “norms of respectability” include having to sign a loyalty oath in order to attend the event? I really wish that GS would include this info in their reporting.Once again critical information is left out of GS reporting despite the information being brought to their attention.  Don’t you  think that is relevant to the motives and operations of an organization? When someone has to agree with a party platform before they can even attend a panel discussion, .that needs to be reported. Elizabeth Green, what say you?

  • Borninbrooklyn

    In all honesty, from the looks of the video, it recalls just a bit of The Bard: “The Lady Doth Protest Too Much.”

    And I don’t mean the teacher in the audience raising the issue of who speaks for who, but rather Evan Stone. If that’s a breach in decorum requiring a shut down, well, you have to wonder what planet Mr. Stone has come from. I mean, compared to the way the Mayor handles things, or what a typical government hearing is like, heck, this was nothing but a legitimate comment wondering what gives E4E the right to say they represent teachers…

  • Ellen

    Will the Charters use the recommendations from e4e?

  • SickofBloomberg

    Well Mr. Stone, is this how “effective” you were in your classroom management also?  That would explain why you no longer teach but instead are a paid shill for the finacial vultures circling our schools.  E4E speaks for no one but themselves. 

  • bee

    And after seeing that ridiculous loyalty pledge, one has to wonder exactly who IS “themselves.”

  • Ellen

    Actually I got a chuckle out of it….but it was almost too easy to disrupt the event.  That alone is very scary

  • http://twitter.com/BNiche B

    “Charter school teachers made up a bulk of the teachers in the audience. Because charter schools operate outside of the traditional public school system, their teachers will not be subject to whatever teacher evaluation deal the city and the union eventually strike.”

    So most of the audience compromised of charter school teachers who participated in a discussion about E4E’s teacher evaluation proposal about policies that WON’T affect them, but WILL affect public school teachers.

    Wait… what?

  • Marat

    Any chance that was Ruben whining “You must leave!”?

    Truly pathetic, the guy questioning Evan was not being rude nor disrespectful. I guess following the all wise Evan, Shitney, and the hive mind is expected at all E$E meetings, nobody else is allowed to have a differing opinion. Sounds a lot like Bloomberg.

  • Invictus

    If the audience or the “class” was rowdy, then according to DOE mandates, the instructor is at fault for not having a “engaging” lesson….So, the reps from the E4E ought to be given a U for unsatisfactory and lacking engagement or conceptual understanding of what they are teaching.  Opps, I forgot, they can dispute this rating by going and engaging their supervisors through a rubric they have approved. 

    Try to “dissolve” a class because the students are rowdy and see what happens to you in the real world.

    Are these the ‘young’ and ‘effective’ teachers that are attempting to dictate what 74,ooo NYC seasoned teachers are judged with?

    The joke of the day. 

  • http://www.accountabletalk.com/ Mr. A. Talk

    At what point will GS actually investigate the true size of the membership of E4E? As a journalistic web site, I think it is your duty to verify these claims. E4E says they have 2000 members, then 2500, but they don’t even have that many “likes” on their Facebook page, and their meetings, such as the one you have video of, clearly show a tiny audience in comparison to their claimed membership. How many of their “members” are charter school teachers who are unaffected by the asinine ideas E4E spews forth? If you are going to give them this much coverage, GS, it is incumbent upon you to verify whether they have a real membership or whether they are making it all up.

    Not only that, but having watched the video, it is clear that Stuart Kramer didn’t “yell” out his remarks. Saying that he did taints this article. I have seem far more raucous faculty meetings. For that matter, I have seen far more raucous boy scout meetings, and none of the scouts ever complained about the lack of decorum.

  • 12 year teach

    As a member of the audience, I must say that the E4E staff actually handled themselves professionally, something both the Union and DOE could learn from.  The panel ended 5 minutes early and only because 3 rude teachers who I honestly do not think should be allowed in front of kids could not contain themselves.  It is never okay to yell out about your voice not being heard when their are systems in place to hear it.  Mr. Stone also said he would stay after to talk to anyone who had concerns, but the yellers were the first ones  out the door.  It became their sole goal was to prevent real conversation from happening.  The conversation was lively and informative as an experienced educator I look forward to the next E4E event.

  • Anonymous

    Hilarious. One can only assume that E4E teachers run their classrooms the same way… If a student questions the teacher, it is considered dissent and the teacher stops teaching or the student is removed from the classroom.

    E4E should be embarrassed by this video and their inability to lead a real exchange of ideas that are complex in nature.

    Anyone care to guess how much longer Bill Gates will fund this group?

  • Marat

    Not only that, but get your facts straight GS. The guy’s last name is Kaplan not Kramer, give him credit, he deserves a lot of credit!

  • http://www.accountabletalk.com/ Mr. A. Talk

    Should not be allowed in front of kids? They should be given an award for fighting for the rights of real teachers, not the phonies who claim to be educators but who really get a paycheck from Bill Gates.

  • http://twitter.com/BNiche B

    Two things:

    1) That was yelling? Really? I’ve watched the video a few times, and I don’t hear any of this yelling you speak of.

    2) http://gothamschools.org/2011/06/02/more-helpful-observations-at-core-of-e4es-teacher-eval-proposal/#comment-216926187 ^ Comments from someone else who attended. What do you say to those comments?

  • Assata

    Precisely…..what insanity!!!!

  • Ken Hirsh

    It would be great to see more video of this event if it exists.

  • Sick of Bloomberg

    Well said, Invictus.  They can’t facilitate a discussion among willing adults.  Certainly wouldn’t last more than ten minutes in a NYC middle school.  E4E, please go away, the REAL teachers have work to do!!!

  • ASTRAKA

    Mr A. Talk,
    You asked:
    “At what point will GS actually investigate the true size of the membership of E4E?”

    The answer is clearly never. I do not think GS “journalist” are experienced enough to even understand many of their shortcomings. They probably do not have an experienced editor to check their articles for errors in meaning, intention, objectivity, and accuracy.  Experience in every profession matters!
     In fact many of their articles are at best amateurish. I will call GS the “New York Post” of education blogging.

  • Michael M. (parent still)

    Irony alert.  Tweed hates dissent.  So does E4E, apparently.  Maybe they should team up.

  • GC

    In fairness, I do believe that Elizabeth addressed this in the comments when the title of the previous article on ME4ME was changed.  This article seemed to be more even handed than previous ME4ME posts. Yes, a few mistakes were made. The fact is, this scab group gets under the skin of myself and every other
    dedicated career teaching professional. We are much less likely to be forgiving of some honest mistakes (that were corrected) when this group of amoral, inexperienced, bought and paid for know it all hacks looking to stab their elders and betters from behind for a few shekels is involved.  No one should take them seriously, and I think this blog posting exposes some of their keystone cop attributes without Gotham taking a position. And it seems clear that they do listen to some emails. 

  • Michael M. (parent still)

    “Crescendo of interruptions?”
    “Nearly five minutes?” 

    Granted the video might not have started back that far, but from where it does, the panelist says he’s going to “cut it off” only 25 seconds in, after some back-and-forth. 

    And yet… another pro-E4E leadership audience member goes on for 30 seconds with the tacit blessings of the panel?

    Say what?

    ***

    My weak attempt at a transcript:

    Stuart Kaplan (SK): “… this is a policy created by the LEADERS of Educators for Excellence, not by the teachers.  So how can we sit here and applaud this type of (inaudible, “views?” or “abuse?”)? 

    Other (no mic): (inaudible) “please let them finish…”

    Female audience member #1: “No but…”

    Panelist (no mic): (inaudible) “No but – hold on.  I created(?) this paper.  I did not….”

    SK  “… and I am a teacher, and I’ve never been asked what I thought.”
    ["Yelled" according to GS?  Oh pu-leeze.]

    Panelist (with mic): “Michael [Who?  Stuart?], you know what?  I’m going to cut it off.  Clearly, we’ve broken a lot of norms of respectability, that I’d hoped we wouldn’t.”

    Female audience member #2: “But you seemed to have started it putting things…”

    ***

    Questions:
    1) Who the heck is the off-screen audience member to keep imploring “…you have to leave, you have to go.  I came to see this presentation.  I love the work they’re doing.  But there have been numerous emails sent out about this stuff.  You have to leave.  I’m sorry.  You do. …” 

    2) Why isn’t the spin that an audience member who’s NOT identified goes on for LONGER about how Mr. Kaplan has to leave?  0:35 to 1:05 — a full 30-second soliloquy that the chair does NOTHING to cut off.

  • GC

    ME4ME seem to be, from this video, the kind of “teachers” that call the Dean or the AP when a student is late with his HW or forgets his pen.

  • Michael M. (parent still)

    “their?”  I’ll assume that’s a typo.  I’ve made plenty.

    Your opinion of Mr. 30-seconds of “You have to leave?”

    As an outside observer, it seems to me the REAL conversation would have been for the panel to respond to points raised by the audience, whether reflecting a minority viewpoint or one blessed by leadership.

  • GC

    It seems to me that an expose of their membership numbers would interest a great number of people, myself included.  I’m sure a number of folks in this neck of the blogosphere would be glad to contribute.  I’d be willing to bet less than 100 are “real” members.  Stuart didn’t yell at all from what I saw.  Fact is, it is out of
    context like a certain video from Andrew Brietbart that most of you will recall. I’d like to see the whole video.  Gotham in the past has taken rally numbers and the membership numbers from the Post and the Daily News.  That has to change.  Do we take news from the Star etc. at the checkout counter as factual?  Or from the Onion? 

  • GC

    They may simply not have the staff to cover or double check everything, yet want to get it out there.  They may be afraid to offend possible future funding sources. Post articles are ads., paid for by Murdoch for Supreme Being.   The person to get interested in this is Juan Gonzalez.  However, there is so much corruption in Mayor
    Bloomberg’s Administration that he is getting carpal tunnel from the material they are giving him. 

  • 12 year teach

    Correction??? I read these comments and they imply that GS is slanted towards E4E, there is no way.  This reporter clearly wanted to portray this as a much bigger incident then it was and seems to have intentionally tried to misrepresent the audience.  

    The event ended a few minutes early and it needed to – the video does not capture any of the previous interruptions from SK, who was disrespectful not only to the panel, but to every teacher in the audience.  His behavior makes all teachers look bad.  

  • GC

    A veteran teacher would have seen a teachable moment and have taken the opportunity to have an exchange of ideas, deviate from the format of the meeting, and actually accomplish something.  Neophyte educators tend to be afraid to  deviate from a script (Lucy Calkins, Workshop Model), afraid of a free flowing
    creative setting, insecure in having their authority challenged by a bright student, and tend to rely on the Dean to come in and do their classroom management for them.  The only person I heard on the video yelling or being inappropriate was the guy standing over Stuart, (who was using a conversational tone) Evan (?) raising his voice and picking up his crayon and going back home, and the guy kvetching and whining,”You have to leave”. 

  • GC

    Think that has already happened, Michael M.

  • GC

    Think that has already happened, Michael M.

  • Pogue

    “You must leave!  I’m sorry, you must leave!  Either you leave or we’re packing up and taking it back to our bar where we will use our Microsoft corporate credit cards to buy drinks for those who sign our loyalty oath. C’mon guys!”

    E4E = Spoiled kids in a sandbox, mentality.

  • Marat

    SK is a hero. Period.

    GS should have reported the name of the whiny guy asking him to leave (Ruben maybe?) and the name of the wannabe tough guy standing behind SK trying to intimidate him.

  • http://nyceducator.com/ NYC Educator

     ”His behavior makes all teachers look bad.”

    You know, for someone who labels others unfit to teach, you’re pretty quick with a stereotype.

  • Marat

    Face it, one man PWNED (that’s Internet talk) the E$E leadership and the entire E$E body sitting there. That one man is a real teacher, unlike the majority of E$E, and there’s many more real teachers just like him ready to call BS on these fake corporate sponsored grassroot scabs. I hope this is just the beginning. A lot of real career classroom teachers are getting pissed at this nonsense entity that too many media outlets are giving undeserved praise meanwhile they haven’t amounted to squat. They talk the talk but haven’t walked the walk.

  • Invictus

    To say that a teacher is “disrespectful” for being in disagreement of the implied statements by the E$E mouthpieces, that what they “preach” is the gospel that all teachers across the City believe, is really DISRESPECTFUL…perhaps the only sort truly sort of ‘disrespect” is the fact that the teacher simply signed an implicit ‘agreement’ that he was in agreement with the E$E discourse about teachers and teaching…..Of course, just because he signed it, it does not mean that within the context of the sham presentation, he came to DISAGREE with the nonsense that was being postulated.  After all, the WORST disrespect one can commit is to ignore one’s sense of what is right and wrong and if what is being said is masked in a very thin veneer of truth and taunted it like the truth.

  • Veteran Educator

    E4E ( which is the same as BoE or DoE to me) as I am a veteran educator, just proved a point. There are no teachable moments anymore, everything is scripted, just as the panel was supposed to be. I wasn’t surprised it ended abruptly, however, in a classroom,if a student questions you or challenges you, would you pack up and call it a day? Dismiss the class early? Give them busy work or pray the bell will ring? Call for the Dean or AP to punish the child or try to intimidate as the guy standing in the isle tried to portray? What ever happened to educating the student, engaging the student, the parameters of a debate or discussion? Continue demonstrating what I observed in the
    video, within your classrooms,and you
    wont last very long as a teacher. You have just cultivated a role model for the rest of your students to emulate, the next time your class meets. You failed to engage them and their needs have not been met… How does this fit into your pie chart for YOUR evaluation?!?!

  • Aa36b

    the article says stuart kramer — the video says stuart kaplan

  • Guest

    I was sitting in front of Mr.You must leave.

    It wasn’t Reuben. Mr. You must leave was the most out of line.

  • Ruben

    I was very disappointed by the way the event ended. I think the outbursts could’ve been handled differently, but I think there was still plenty opportunity given for spirited, even angry discussion after the question/answer period. I was also let down that “You must leave” got applause when he wasn’t voicing his frustration any more productively. Overall though it was a really interesting discussion that shouldn’t be overshadowed by the final 5 minutes. We had a great diversity of experiences represented on the panel and I really enjoyed hearing Mr. Casey’s perspective as well as Ms. O’Dowd’s. I hope the final outbursts won’t inhibit a more thoughtful discussion – similar to one that took place on Thursday for almost 2 hours – from taking place moving forward. 

  • Gdecker

    Thanks for pointing out the discrepancy, @Aa36b – made the fix.

  • Marat

    Ruben, who was the E$E wannabe tough guy that was standing trying to intimidate Stuart?

    Do you condone his behavior?

  • Marat

    Still Kramer in the 14th paragraph.

  • http://twitter.com/SoBronxSchool Bronx Teacher

    Wow! When I heard about this video I was expecting something out of Jerry Springer. I was so disappointed. This was nothing.

  • Michael M. (parent still)

    Hi.  I appreciated the video.  Do you have more?  Why no electrons on Mr. Pretty Pleas?

  • Going Tonight

    I also agree that the outbursts could have been handled differently. Evan should have taken one question from the audience in a show of good faith. Stuart waited until the question and answer segment to ask a question, clearly his goal was not to disrupt the event, but to make sure that Evan was not censoring out the difficult or critical questions.

    Kate Sobel, the teacher who is on the E4E policy team and on the panel I found very confusing. She said that she wanted to know her strengths and weaknesses and what to work on as a teacher. Since she is a middle school ELA teacher, she should have a value added score. I am wondering how knowing what percentile she was in has informed her instruction. If we want assessments to improve instruction, they must be far more granular than giving a percentile rank. She needs to know what skills her students are deficient in, not only that a deficiency exists.

    I think 40% of an evaluation based on high stakes, standardized tests is too much. That kind of weight on a standardized test means that the a corporation will be dictating curriculum that I teach. As a history teacher, that is a scary thought to me. Here is a preview of whats to come. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/13/opinion/13fri4.html

    The proposal wasn’t all bad. I think the rubric to conduct evaluations is a useful tool. I can’t see any opposition to that. I also like the idea of students having a voice in evaluations.

  • Going Tonight

    * Grace Snodgrass was the teacher on the panel and on the policy team not Kate Sobel.

  • bee

    It was definitely not Jerry Springerish, ( no teacher evaluation/paternity tests that I could see) I thought it was a mite, Catcher in the Ryeish, with a sprinkling Stepford Wives and a smidgeon of Lord of the Flies.

  • Ruben

    I just want to add that the general tone of this article is somewhat disappointing. Beginning with the characterization of the disruptions as “dissent”, the sentence: “Led by Teach For America alumni who are no longer in the classroom, the group has quickly gained a high profile with the support of national philanthropists, including the Gates Foundation” and the original mischaracterization of the audience as majority charter school teachers, this article feels as if it was written with angry anti-E4E GS commenters editing over Geoffrey’s shoulder.

    No mention of the other panel members, including Principal Angela O’Dowd, TNTP Talent Manager Kate Sobel and teacher/E4E Policy Team member Grace Snodgrass or their contributions to the discussion is made. No mention either of the survey that took place during the panel which showed the variety of years of experience in the crowd and was also an obvious attempt to gather immediate feedback to your policy paper. 

    I understand I have my obvious biases, and it’s pretty much impossible to please both sides at the same time, but I couldn’t help feeling frustrated by the tone of this article.

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