GothamSchools — daily independent reporting on NYC public schools

All speakers who went over the allotted time are cut off.

@1c6fefb5d4e5b44034ae4c69410244b8:disqus I’m glad that you are happy with the educational options available to you and your children in your neighborhood. You are very lucky. My story dealing with district 5 public schools is completely different. I  respect your decision about not sending your children to a charter school, that’s OK- but why do you feel you can lecture me on “my options” other than charter schools? Like yours, my choice was not taken lightly and like yours it should be respected.

Actually, it really wasn’t about luck, it was more about active research. My children, at the elementary level, did not attend their neighborhood school, they attended a magnet school that was in our district, but not close by. Admittedly, there were perfectly reasonable choices my neighborhood, but the magnet school was the only option when my oldest child was in pre-K. We really liked the magnet school ,so my children continued to go there. I think one of the problems people encountered at that time, was that it was hard to get information about what was out there! Of course now, with the internet, and sites like Inside Schools, there is a preponderance of information out there. I understand that you want to advocate for your child, and I’m sure your decision was not made lightly, but I can never respect the false premises that are the very foundations upon which charter schools are built. It is not my intention to “lecture” you about anything, I’m sorry that it came across that way. I reckon we’ll just have to agree to disagree?

The NAACP is now a null and void organization – it has long lost touch with the real issues facing people of color and how to address them. It’s a shame that an organization that held such high esteem is now such an embarrassment to progressive, working and middle class Black people.

That siad, there is not 1 school in my district for my son to attend that is not failing – if we had not been lucky enough to be chosen via lottery we’d be forced send our son to a school where success is highly unlikely. 

Charter schools are not anti- union, charter schools are pro children, get it PRO CHILDREN  they support teachers in their effort to maintain a safe learning environment for all children. Instead of suing to put an end to charter schools who share building space with failing schools, why not adopt the mantra that is obviously working for the entire public school system. I’m so sick of lazy teachers, angling politicians and sorry excuses for parents playing with the future of America.

Thus far charter schools have and continue to prove that past methods and standards for educating America’s children is FAILING. Yes change is difficult but in the state that we’re in it has to be inevitable – get with it or get swallowed up by the rest of world.

NAACP stop the frivolous lawsuit! Stand up for children of color! Stand up for CHOICE! Stand up for PREMIUM FREE education = Charter schools = HARD WORK FROM SCHOOLS/TEACHERS/ADMINISTRATION, STUDENTS & PARENTS or watch people of color fall to their lowest levels yet in a competitive world.

Actually, there is no evidence that charter schools as a whole, perform better than neighborhood and magnet public schools as a whole. So your assertion that “charter schools” are better, is erroneous. As for charter schools being public schools, that is open to debate. You might want to read the Bruce Baker piece linked in GS “Remainders” on June 2nd.

@1c6fefb5d4e5b44034ae4c69410244b8:disqus So you’re suggesting sending my child to a magnet school instead of a charter school? Isn’t that the same argument, basically?  We’re both admitting that the normal public schools in our area are failing and that we have to look elsewhere for a school that will actually give our children the education they need.  To follow up on what “taxpayer” was saying – isn’t it all of our prerogatives to get the best education we can for our children? I would gladly fight to get better schools for all of our children because I think we’re all going to hell in a handbasket if we let our nations schools fail our children generation after generation, but my most immediate concern is my own child’s education.  If you think I’m going to sacrifice my own child’s education in the hopes of bettering everyone’s you’re either crazy or not a parent.

bee: please see this link:

http://projects.nytimes.com/new-york-schools-test-scores/counties/new-york/districts/new-york-city-district-3/schools/harlem-success-academy-charter-school

This is the NYT piece on the performance of NYC public school in last year test. I’m sending you the results for HSA1 the only one available so far for the Success Charter Network. My children go to HSA2 and my third grader took the test this year. I’m sure they will do as well  as their peers in HSA1. 
Although I’m aware that a standardized test per se is not the proof that the children are learning, it is nevertheless a benchmark and after experiencing  first hand what it is all about this year (basically reading comprehension and math), you bet that I would like my children to be in a school like this.
I can attest -like I’m sure many other fellow parent in my school can too- that our children are not only excelling at test taking, but also at learning, at being curious, at being good citizen at having aspirations for their future and yes I’m gushing but so will any parent witnessing their children thrive and grow in a great educational environment.
I’m not trying to convince you that “my charter” is better than “your magnet” or anything- all I’m saying is that here we have a great school helping children to excel  in one of the more needed school districts of this city and that we shouldn’t not be taken hostage to political feuds. 
Finally, please look at the demographics of our school and then maybe you will understand why we are so enraged by the NAACP decision of taking part in this  lawsuit (we are not really surprise with the UFT suing, we are kind of used to this by now). 

No, it is not the same argument. Magnet schools are different than charter schools in a vast number of ways. Public magnet schools are held to the same rules as neighborhood public schools. Charter schools are not. I think people need to look at the big picture. I think under mayoral control of the DOE, the public schools of NYC have been shortchanged. Unfortunately, our school communities are affected by the politics of the times. (Perhaps they always will be) The reality of the moment is that educational policies are being decided by a group of individuals who have collectively almost no educational experience or credentials. I don’t think schools should be run as a corporate model. (10 years of complete control of the schools by Bloomberg have proven to be devastating for our learning communities) Bloomberg hired Ms. Black, because although she had no experience in the field, credentials, or even children that had been in the public schools, she was supposed to be a good business manager. You know how well that worked out. Instead of using tried and true educational policies such as small class size, meaningful, relevant  curriculum, parental involvement, he has created competition for resources, pitting parents against parents, students against students, teachers against teachers. In his haste and ignorance he has instituted a punitive regime of high stakes tests. Absurd! He has not provided the needed resources and supports to schools that were treading water (often in areas that are economically depressed), instead he pushed them underwater and drowned them. (Making way for more charter schools to take over the space) So far Mr. Bloombergs “reforms” are high stakes testing, (and he even fudged the statistics on that) tech programs, and charter schools. Nothing tried or true about any of those “reforms.” What it really boils down to, is the almighty dollar. Let me add, that these “reforms” he touts, do not even make sense for NYC fiscally. Schools that work historically have good parental involvement, small class sizes, and a learning community that learns cooperatively. This can be done, with the proper support and resources in our neighborhood and magnet public schools, Because our neighborhood schools serve the largest student population the focus should be on them. Again, charter schools as a whole have not been proven to be better than neighborhood and magnet public schools as a whole. I understand your concern for your child’s education, but please don’t claim that charter schools are better, because that’s just patently untrue.

Children in charter schools have a longer school day so they spend more time in school learnig than children at zone schools. So, if a charter school wants to delay the start of their school day for snow or a rally, they can do so because they have extra learning time already in the bank – approximately 2.4 years worth of extra learning time on average. 

Unclear: what is the “extreme prejudice”?  Lottery in, lottery out.  If the argument is that “successful” charters push out kids who are low achieving or “difficult,” then use consistent language and go ahead and make that claim. That’s not prejudice; that would be a crime, and at the very least against the spirit of the charter law.  So call it a crime and the burden of proof is on you.  Otherwise it’s just defensiveness.
 

HSA2Mother :  You question the integrity and motives of the NAACP, the UFT, teachers, traditional public school parents, anyone who doesn’t agree with you, but I’m the self righteous fanatic?  I’m not the one talking about Naxalite guerillas, am I?  That’s from “your side”.   How many people in these organizations fight for civil rights, human rights, workers’ rights, go to jail for their beliefs, protest injustices that have nothing to do with their jobs or their own well being, go to parts of the world like Haiti that need help, raise money for disaster relief there and in Japan  -  who are you to slander their intergrity and motives?  They are not perfect by any standards but who is? Gee, I’m the self – righteous one.  I don’t think a superintendent of schools, 7 schools with small enrollments, should make more than our President, the Governor, and the Chancellor of 1.2 million children, I guess that makes me a fanatic.  As a taxpayer, I’d rather see the 300 -400 K that could be saved used to benefit the classroom,I’d rather have a few hundred kids have laptops than grossly overpay someone – I must be a fanatic.  When I see people claim charters function better than public schools based on zero facts, not taking the neediest students, and counseling out kids who need help to manage their behavior or disabilities, I guess that makes me a fanatic.  I don’t think children should have  a school come into their school and relegate them to a basement with a leaky boiler.  I guess that makes me a fanatic.  I guess you would be ok with it if, using my powerful political connections, I got the Mayor to evict you from the main part of your own house, made you live in the basement, while I got to live in the your former bedroom, shower in your bathrooms, and cook in your kitchen, and you have to cook with a microwave and a hotplate, and wash up in a sink while enjoying the boiler fumes…   and watch me use the best part of your former home every day.  That is separate and unequal, isn’t it? 

And yet nationally study after study as reported on this site and the NY Times site show that they do no better on average than traditional public schools.  So that extra time pretty much means nothing, doesn’t it?  I’m sure not having a stable, experienced workforce as opposed to the tremendous turnover rates in charters might play a
role in this.

HSA2 mom: After the PEP, the NAACP  joined the UFT in suing because DOE violated the school closure laws.  They failed to involve the communities and listen to the voice of parents, so the NAACP joined in advocating for parents of students “of color”.  They actually are continuing to take on the DOE, the charter issue is the most recent.   They are taking on the whole system.  Again, where was your support for this?  You are narrowly concerned with your own issue, which is fine, but your comments above show a pretense that you care about all students, not just in HSA2.  

I have seen/heard/read enough to see what the UFT really cares about: control and keeping their turf. I had enough of these “leaders and saviors” of the world, and unlike what you might think I’m not waiting for Superman to fix the school system  (and I’m 100% sure that if he does arrive the cape won’t say UFT or NAACP). Unions can’t control public charters schools so they are after them, especially the good ones.
You seem very fond to talk about money so how about that: Don’t  unions give money to politicians to lobby for their interest?- do you have a number on that? I also  read that the current leader of the NAACP admitted to stealing money from a sick friend some years ago!  (but as you said we are not all perfect so I guess this is OK) . So excuse me for having reasons to question the “integrity” and  real motives behind this lawsuit.Finally, my only allegiance is to the best possible education for my children and I will support ANY school that delivers just that. Charters alone won’t fix the system but in my experience they are making a difference for my children, their peers and this community. And I don’t even expect that you agree, believe, understand or can even relate to that but I honestly don’t care. 

Please post “study after study.”

There was one study.  Which did not include New York, one of the states with the most stringent charter regulations.  The study found that while in the first years of some charters existence most performed the same or worse than publics, by year 3 the trend had reversed.  Have you actually read the study?

Meanwhile, CREDO specifically studies New York City and found that 
“Overall the results found that the typical student in a New York City charter school learns more than their virtual counterparts in their feeder pool in reading and mathematics. In school-by-school comparisons New York City charters perform relatively better in math than in reading. In math, more than half the charter schools are showing academic growth that is statistically larger than their students would have achieved in their regular public schools. A third of charter schools show no difference, and 16 percent were found to have significantly lower learning. In reading, the numbers are not as strong, but show that nearly 30 percent outperform their local alternatives, 12 percent deliver worse results and about 60 percent are producing learning that is equivalent to their regular public school counterparts.

The results also show that in New York City Black and Hispanic students enrolled in charter schools do significantly better in reading and math compared to their counterparts in traditional public schools.”

Read for yourself: http://credo.stanford.edu/reports/NYC%202009%20_CREDO.pdf

Nationally, some charters underperform.  In NYC, charters largely outperform traditional zoned schools.  

It would be great if you could have all those things you want without causing harm to the families who either don’t want or can’t get them. There are many more children in non-lotteried neighborhood school seats and they are being squashed and humiliated by your desires. Tell your charter schools to get their own spaces, and serve ELLs & special ed kids in equal proportion to their districts, and then we’ll talk. In the meantime, we should all be crying FOUL at the DOE for not supporting its neighborhood schools.