In Harlem, charter school parents and students target NAACP

rally day

May 26, 2011

In Harlem, charter school parents and students target NAACP

by Tony Richards, at 4:44 pm

Students and families protested today in Harlem against the NAACP's involvement in a lawsuit against school closures and charter school co-locations with district schools. (Chris Arp)

About 2,500 people rallied in Harlem this morning, calling on the NAACP to withdraw from its lawsuit with the teachers union against the city Department of Education. That lawsuit seeks to stop the closure of 22 schools as well as the placement of several charter schools in district school space.

Speakers at Thursday’s rally included charter school parents and teachers, Harlem Children’s Zone president and CEO Geoffrey Canada, and the actor Seth Gilliam from “The Wire,” whose child is a on a waiting list for a charter school. Speakers and attendees denounced the NAACP’s participation in a lawsuit they said would harm charter schools primarily serving students of color.

“Ms. Dukes, turn your back on this lawsuit,” said Kathy Kernizan, the parent of a student at the Uncommon Schools charter network, referring to Hazel Dukes, president of the NAACP New York State Conference.

A letter to Dukes with signatures from charter school advocates was circulated through the crowd asking the organization to withdraw from the suit. A spokesperson for the New York City Charter Center, which helped organize the event, said that more than 2,000 signatures had been collected this week.

“We gotta demand quality education,” Canada told the crowd. “We have to be prepared to fight for that.” The city Department of Education’s proposal calls for two of the charter schools associated with the Harlem Children’s Zone, the Promise Academy charter schools, to be co-located inside district schools.

The charter center spokesperson said the protest, held outside the Harlem State Office building at 125th Street, was not the work of any one organization. But at least two groups appear to have taken leading roles: the charter center, an advocacy and support organization for charter schools in the city, and the Success Charter Network created by Eva Moskowitz. Many of the families at the rally had children at one of the Success network’s nine schools. (Seven of the network’s schools are named in the lawsuit.)

Click here for a slideshow of photographs from the rally.

A representative from the New York City Charter School Center distributed flyers with excerpts of the NAACP’s mission statement to people entering the rally. Center officials argued that the lawsuit contradicts the NAACP’s mission to “ensure the political, educational, social, and economic equality of rights of all persons and to eliminate race based discrimination.”

In a telephone interview, Kenneth Cohen, the regional director for the NAACP’s Metropolitan Council, said that the lawsuit supports the organization’s mission. Fighting co-locations of charter schools inside district schools, he said, challenges the unequal distribution of resources to district schools. ”We do want alternatives for our parents in those communities,” Cohen said, “but the bottom line is that it doesn’t mean you neglect the public schools also.”

Earlier this week, Dukes told GothamSchools that she would meet with parents who want to meet, but criticized plans for a rally.

It’s not clear what the exact consequences would be for the 18 charter schools named in the lawsuit if the NAACP and the teachers union are successful. The charter center spokesperson said that new charter schools, deprived of space they were counting on, could be prevented from opening, while existing charter schools could be evicted from their current spaces or prevented from enrolling new students.

Charter schools are publicly funded but operated by private boards and regulated by the state. New York education law does not grant charter schools funding for facilities. Arguing that the lack of funding is inequitable, the Bloomberg administration has offered some charter schools district space. The alternative for charter schools is to raise private funding to pay for leases or constructing new facilities.

At the rally, many parents described the lawsuit as an attempt to close charter schools. A flyer handed out to families at Harlem Success Academy 1 to organize the rally, obtained by GothamSchools, endorses that characterization. “WE NEED TO FIGHT TO KEEP OUR SCHOOLS OPEN,” the flyer says.

Charles Moerdler of Stroock & Stroock & Lavan LLP, the firm representing the UFT in the lawsuit, would not directly comment on the spokesperson’s characterization. Moerdler repeated the lawsuit’s claim that the proposed co-locations challenged by the suit violated decrees from the state education commissioner. ”How the court addresses that is up to the court at the end of the day,” Moerdler said.

Cohen also disputed the claim that the suit was aimed at closing charter schools. “There might be a misconception there,” Cohen said. “We’re not fighting to close any school.”

Charter school parents and students, many of whom held signs calling on the NAACP to drop the lawsuit, made up the bulk of attendees. Parents from several Success charter schools said their children’s classes were starting later than usual to allow children to attend the rally.

Tracey Edwards, who attended the rally with her daughter Saniah Delrio, a first-grader at Harlem Success Academy Charter School 4, said she felt emotional about the rally. She praised her daughter’s school, saying it had allowed Delrio to read at her grade level and spurred her imagination. “I don’t understand why a school like this should be bothered with, want to be shut down at all when the kids are excelling,” Edwards continued.

Majella Dominguez, a third-grader at Harlem Success Academy Charter School 1, expressed enthusiasm for her school and for Thursday’s rally. “I think it’s great,” Dominguez said, “ ’cause they’re fighting for our school to get more space.”

Dominguez said one of the things she liked about her school was that it offered instruction on Saturdays for students who need it.

Zelda Owens said she learned about the rally only five minutes or so before it began. Owens, whose child attends Future Leaders Institute in Harlem — not one of the charter schools named in the lawsuit — said the issues raised in the rally affect all parents.

“As a lifelong Harlemite, I do recognize the fact that charter schools have given parents incredible options in educating our children,” Owens said. “And I believe that any option, one that adds tremendous demonstrated value, is something that all parents should fight for whether they’re in charter schools or not.”

Many charter school parents disputed the NAACP’s argument that charter schools located inside district space hurt district schools.

One parent at the rally, Julius Tajiddin, represented a district school, Frederick Douglass Academy II Secondary School, which is slated to be co-located with a Harlem Success school. Tajiddin, who said he is the chair of the school leadership team at Frederick Douglass, said the lawsuit is motivated not by a desire to limit choice, but to protect the needs of district school students.

He said that co-locations often force classes at district schools into hallways and stairwells. “It’s about resources,” said Tajiddin.

bee

Hey toto, I don’t think we’re in NYC anymore. We seem to be in the midst of an Amway convention.
Success Academy Parent

@ GC and bee…aren’t the public school teachers so fortunate to have union! (yes, meant with all right sarcasm). Would you like to know why charter school teachers don’t have unions? Because like the other millions of Americans who work without unions, Charter school teachers have to work their tails off to educate their students and put the best interest of their students first…if not they won’t have a job like anyone else who doesn’t do their job without a union.
Oh, the way the UFT saves the jobs of those under-performing teachers is incredible! I attended public school in NYC from elementary until high school and oh my I can count the amount of skilled teachers in one hand! It’s been 6 years since I graduated from high school and it is a shame to have had teachers sitting in front of me reading a news paper or those who would just shove a book in our faces and say “just read it, you’ll get it!”
Where was the UFT then? Protecting the interests of their kids or protecting the jobs of their teachers? That’s where the difference stands. So you can continue with your verbal attacks…but one thing I can say is that Eva Moskowitz put the education of her kids first and it is proven, look at the academic achievements of these children? Oh wait, you probably are too busy pointing the finger.
Success Academy Parent

Your comparison to an “Amway Convention” is completely ridiculous. Are you blind sighted by who we parents are fighting for? We aren’t advocating for a company nor product, we are advocating for our kids! Take time to look at who the UFT is trying to push out of these school…it isn’t Eva Moskowitz sitting on those school chairs and behind those desks…those are our children!

We are not “pawns” nor “fancies” as most of the attacks here imply! Like myself, many parents of these children are products of the public school system and many of us know first hand how it was to be a student there. We chose something other than the traditional public school because it obviously didn’t work for us, so why would we put our children through the same process? As a matter of fact, if Eva Moskowitz aks me to jump I will say “How high?” want to know…because she has results!! My daughter is doing exceptional and I will fight to the end to protect what is rightfully hers and that is getting a decent education from an exceptional Charter School and that is (whether it ruffles your feathers or not) the Success Academies.

So before, you plan another sarcastic remark about an “Amway Convention”, please take time to look at who is most important here…our kids!
HSA2mother

The nerve Miguelito: as if your “talking points” were SO original! The same recycled bashing of public charter schools and their advocates one way or another. You did get one point right though: when what is in line is my children’s right to an first class public education, I and many other parents like me will become UFT/NAACP and all the ABC worst PR nightmare!
Success Academy Parent

“…do you truly think that elementary school children understand the
nuances and subtleties of the issues surrounding colocations, charters,
school closures, etc.?”

Don’t underestimate the intelligence of our kids. They know a lot more than what you think…I speak to my child about all issues, enough for her to understand. Also, haven’t you heard that children learn a lot by what they see?

“…you do not
dispute that DOE would not allow traditional public school teachers and
students to go to a protest during school hours. Nothing you can say
about that, is there?” I can answer that or maybe you can…Who’s under attack here?! Who is being threaten to be pushed out of there space?! The traditional public school students or charter school students??? Our children are not being used as props they are the ones who we are primarily fighting for. We are also fighting for our teachers and the Success Academy in total because our kids attend these schools. Can you or can you not see the urgency in that?
Michael Fiorillo

“…please take a look at who is most important here…our kids!”

But that’s just the point, the needs of “your kids” are being pitted against those of other children by the the Mayor, Moskowitz and others. Yet, none of you seem to acknowledge that or care that other people’s children have been forced to have their classes next to boiler rooms while being being excluded from the resources showered on HSA. In what way are HSA students worthier of all the good things you’ve all been crowing about, compared to the public school children of Harlem and the Bronx? All children deserve those opportunities; education is a right, and rights are not apportioned by (phony) lotteries.

Do you think that is fair, or is it just of no importance to you? Do you want your child to grow up into a world where small groups of very wealthy people are able to make these decisions without any public input, or are you OK with it as long as you think he/she is one of the “lucky” or “worthy” (non-special ed, non-ELL, non-SIFE, non-homeless, etc.) ones?

For those people posting here who actually are HSA parents, of course you are correct to want the best for your kids, but don’t delude yourself into thinking that this is not coming at the expense of many, many other people’s children, in addition to the very existence of the neighborhood school.

All children deserve the resources and opportunities you claim your kids are receiving at HSA. That they are not, and that charter schools are a deceptive diversion from that fact, is what you should be protesting.
Michael Fiorillo

“…please take a look at who is most important here…our kids!”

But that’s just the point, the needs of “your kids” are being pitted against those of other children by the the Mayor, Moskowitz and others. Yet, none of you seem to acknowledge that or care that other people’s children have been forced to have their classes next to boiler rooms while being being excluded from the resources showered on HSA. In what way are HSA students worthier of all the good things you’ve all been crowing about, compared to the public school children of Harlem and the Bronx? All children deserve those opportunities; education is a right, and rights are not apportioned by (phony) lotteries.

Do you think that is fair, or is it just of no importance to you? Do you want your child to grow up into a world where small groups of very wealthy people are able to make these decisions without any public input, or are you OK with it as long as you think he/she is one of the “lucky” or “worthy” (non-special ed, non-ELL, non-SIFE, non-homeless, etc.) ones?

For those people posting here who actually are HSA parents, of course you are correct to want the best for your kids, but don’t delude yourself into thinking that this is not coming at the expense of many, many other people’s children, in addition to the very existence of the neighborhood school.

All children deserve the resources and opportunities you claim your kids are receiving at HSA. That they are not, and that charter schools are a deceptive diversion from that fact, is what you should be protesting.
Success Academy Parent

@ Michael Fiorillo; hold on a minute, I did not say that HSA students are any “worthier of the good things” than other public school students and I disagree with children’s academic opportunities being placed on chance (lotteries). But understand this, charter schools are NOT the only schools using a lottery system for e.g. PS 333 and you may want to do research on other public schools who do the same, but I don’t hear anyone here raising havoc on that.
My child could have not been chosen by the lottery, I am well aware of that. She would have had to attend her zone school. I won’t sit here and bash her zone school but I will put it plain and simple, I would have still looked for other options…there was more than enough reason to have done so. Not to mention her zone school does have up to date resources such as smart boards, new computers, etc. Have you questioned why some public schools have updated resources and others don’t? I am speaking of public schools other than charters. Have you recently toured various public schools and made a comparison of their resources…and you noted that there is an unequal distribution of these updated resources amongst the public system in itself? This has been happening way before our charter schools came into “your” space. My son is a child with an IEP who will be also attending HSA next year. He will be in the ICT program. Again, if you do more research you would know they do have an ICT program and provide speech, occupational therapy and SETTS. They don’t currently have self-contained classrooms (12:1:2) but there are very few of these programs in the public school system. The 12:1:2 are being phased out and being replaced by K1 classes and inclusion programs not to mention that funds have been cut down for special education entirely. Also to your comment of the “non-homeless”, please clarify that? Which income class families do you think have their children attending these schools? Many of our families are from lower to middle income working class. A “lottery” is blind to the level of poverty or wealth of the applicants. Also, you speak as though public schools we share space with are all down in a dungeon. I have walked through plenty of schools due to tours for my kids and I have yet to see these kinds of conditions. As to classrooms being placed next to boiler rooms, were they there before the charters came into the school? If so, why wasn’t something done about it then?
Ralph

Over-inflated salaries? The last time I checked the average salary for a person, like me, with a Master’s Degree plus 15 credits, was more than $25,000 a year than I am currently making- with 13 years experience. Last time I checked, $75,000 a year was barely middle class in New York.

Ridiculous pension? Wow, even when I retire, I will still have to work to pay my bills- and I don’t even own a house.

During the ten month school year, most teachers work 60+ hour weeks and genuinely care about their students and will do anything they can to help them succeed. You don’t need tests to learn which teachers do their job and which ones don’t- and by the way, it’s the administrators’ jobs to get rid of those who don’t do their job.

So, if you think you can do a better job- and to all the teacher bashing folk out there brainwashed by self-absorbed and self-righteous politicians, go ahead and become a teacher yourself and see what the reality is. There will be plenty of job openings since it’s people like you who are making this once honorable profession one that people are fleeing from. Why do half of all teachers leave the profession within five years?!
Bunzi03

@ Shango67… and You are saying this to say?
Michael Fiorillo

Success Academy Parent,

First, it’s a common practice of sociopaths (such as Moskowitz, who is the motive force behind all of this) to claim victimization when the people they are attacking defend themselves. In what rational universe is your child being “pushed out” by the UFT and NAACP’s opposing HSA’s space grab? Again, this is the aggressor claiming victimhood.

Second, my use of the term “worthier” was my own, and was not meant to suggest you had said it. It refers to the persistent distinctions in England and Anglo North America between the worthy and the unworthy poor, “… those who could not be blamed for their dire straits and those who could, between those who were redeemable and those who were not, between public neighbors entitled to support and those subject to scorn.”

Between the worthy and unworthy poor, “… the former were disciplined and rewarded (think HSA, KIPP, Uncommon Schools, MF) and the latter disciplined and punished.” (http://religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=2203)

As for comments about unfair distribution of resources among public schools, what makes you think I or any other opponent of charter invasions support that? Those responsible for the unfair distribution of public school resources, the Mayor, Chancellor and the DOE, are the same one’s not-so-surreptitiously supporting HSA’s expropriation of public school space. As I said in my last comment, your beef should be with them, as ours is. But you’ve preferred to try and cut your own deal.

OK: so be it. But don’t try and convince yourself it’s for the benefit of anyone but a comparatively tiny numbers of people.
bee

Wow. Just wow. Talk about the “kettle painting the pot black.” I, for one, am glad that the Michael Fiorellos of the world take time to look at the big picture, because when the day is done, I think people know inherently, that ignoring the existing inequities in education ( the whole shebang, not just charter schools, also mayoral control, high stakes testing, “education profiteers in all guises) will lead to nothing but more blight in their communities. There have been many valid reasons cited by opponents of charter schools for the demise of charter schools. I have yet to see any tangible EVIDENCE proffered as to why charter schools should be allowed to be part of the system.
bee

I have not been blindsided at all. You are advocating a company and product, in fact by supporting charter schools you are advocating for a PLETHORA of companies and products. Admittedly, Mr. Mayor, the king of DOE is too, so if we ever abolish this despotic regime, I sincerely hope that the teachers can actually go back to teaching real and meaningful curriculum, instead of this insidious, banal, drivel that is being crammed down their throats.
bee

I concur!
GC

American Dreamer and Give me a break…What about the kids who got pushed into the class next to the boiler room leaking fumes so your kid could take what was formerly their space? Don’t they have rights too? HSA and other charters are
pushing them out of their schools, their libraries, their playgrounds. But who cares, you and Eva got yours! I want all to have access to a better public education, not just a handful of people with close connections to Mike Bloomberg, Joel Klein, and Dennis Walcott. There should be no RichMan/Poor Man Upstairs/Downstairs relationship between two schools sharing a space, yet when charters come in, due to DOE favoritism they receive expanded support while the original school has it siphoned away by Tweed. I am against public school tax levy monies being used to overpay any supt, particularly one who is being paid an annual salary greater than the President of the US, the Governor, or the Chancellor to run 7 schools. Ask the Native North Americans how they felt about the Colonists, the Aztecs and Mayans about the Spanish, no doubt those people who first experienced European imperialism in this hemisphere feel exactly the same about you coming in and taking over their schools. Did the Pilgrims have a right to raid Native American settlements in Mass. because they had a “better” world view (Christianity), had better technology, a better “plan” to use the same territory? That’s the same logic you are applying, it’s Rudyard Kipling’s “White Man’s Burden” all over again.
GC

No one in this country is being bashed currently like public school teachers. All to eliminate public and eventually private sector unions so that the bottom line of the top 5 % of Americans increase their bottom line.
Why else would Gates, Murdoch, Buffet, the Walton Family, Eli Broad,
Uncle Mike, etc. be interested in school “reform”? They are robber barons.
Do you think Wal Mart cares about charter schools or poor children? This is a workplace that locks illegal immigrant cleaners inside the store (Texas) so that when a fire broke out they all died because they couldn’t escape, and who closes a store if the workers vote to unionize. Coca Cola (Cathy Black Board Member) looks the other way while South American union activists are assasinated. A rising tide lifts all boats, that has been the enduing legacy of the NAACP in fighting for civil rights for all. They don’t think it’s fair that the charter kid has a smartboard, gym classes and a library, while the same public school kids sharing the building have blackboards and dilapidated hand me down facilities. And so do I. I’m sorry that you stand with Orval Faubus, and against Rosa Parks.
GC

You support Eva Moskowitz, who makes 500,000 a year to run 7 schools, more than the President makes, and say that a public school teacher, who with the equivalent of three college degrees and 22 years of experience makes 100,000. FYI, it is not the UFT’s collective bargaining agreement, it is the
memorandum of agreement between the DOE and the UFT,the city is an equal bargaining partner in this, if a contract is good or bad the city is always 50% to blame or 50% to credit. In fact, it was at the insistence of Joel Klein and Mike Bloomberg that the ATR pool was created and placed in the Contract, one of the many foolish things they have done, yet you only blame teachers and unions. It is the Bloomberg Admin. and DOE that have increased class size, reorganized the system poorly multiple times (regions, networks, CFN etc), remove teachers instead of snow, leave kids stranded at bus stops, wasted millions on crooked no bid contracts (City Time, ARIS – just read the papers, a new scandal each week), violates City conflict of interest laws (see Klein, Joel, Murdoch Rupert), can’t follow the law properly in closing schools, ignore parent voices, appoint Chancellors who are unqualified, dismiss PEP members for voting their concience, say that removing toxic PCB poisons are too expensive, deny there is a bedbug crisis, say there is a Chancellor’s search, then deny foil requests for emails on that subject (Black again), spend money on lawyers, unnecessary contracts, and central administration, then insist they have to lay off teachers – where is the accountibility of Bloomberg and DOE? Mike Bloomberg and his Tweed Ring are the real “joke of an attempt to educate youth”.
GC

The numbers of charters in NYC, while still a small percentage of the whole, have grown exponentially. You say charters are closing the achievement gap? Based on what? If charter schools are so great, how come the achievement gap is growing, not narrowing? Why does the NY Times report that nationally charters are
no better and in many cases worse than public schools? How come
ten years of the Ed. Mayor (more like Mr. ED) have resulted in increasing gaps, racially and otherwise? Ten years of failed policies, fraudulent claims of improvement, multiple failed reorganizations, rubber rooms, ATR pool, increasing class size, bloated central administration, crooked no bid contracts, dumbing down gifted and talented programs, closing large schools to create failing smaller schools, on and on and on.
GC

“Where was the NAACP all these years BC (BEFORE CHARTERS) where public schools in districts like mine (#5) serving mostly poor blacks, latinos and immigrants kids were consistently failing to provide them with a good education?”
Look in the encyclopedia under Little Rock, Ark., 1957 – I’m sure there are other
links to show you what the NAACP has been doing in relation to schools. What ignorance.
GC

“Where was the NAACP all these years BC (BEFORE CHARTERS) where public schools in districts like mine (#5) serving mostly poor blacks, latinos and immigrants kids were consistently failing to provide them with a good education?”
Look in the encyclopedia under Little Rock, Ark., 1957 – I’m sure there are other
links to show you what the NAACP has been doing in relation to schools. What ignorance.
GC

HSA parents, American Dreamer, Ldb227, and the others who want numbers to back up arguments against charters (like 1.3 million for advertising over 2 yrs HSA), numbers from from NYCDOE, named studies, GothamSchools, case studies from schools, etc. view the following: http://youtu.be/z3XSm3b64Gk Please take a few minutes and watch, there are also longer youtube videos from the same meeting.
bee

I hope that those that are blindly in favor of charter schools, do take a look at that video. I might add that there were a number of studies and evidence cited against charter schools in the other thread. (Although that seems to have been mysteriously ignored by some of the very people who demanded such information.) I think it’s just a matter of time before this charter school business (double entendre intended) implodes. Unfortunately, the collateral damage will be catastrophic. I do think some of these ” education entrepreneurs,” particularly in the charter school venue, are morally bankrupt opportunists. It sickens me to see this exploitation of students, parents, and teachers.
HSA2mother

I do hope that you are not elementary school Math teachers really- I would not like my kids be learning the math facts from you. Lesson #1 you compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.
The fact is that the DOD gives less money per child to charter schools than it does to traditional public schools. How can you forget about that if this was one of the “compromises” that charter school had to accept so the teacher union will at least give them a chance to exist!
Yes I think that all public school should receive the same financial resources, but guess what- the issue here it’s not just about money. It’s abut seeing what’s working for our children and what doesn’t. So will the unions be willing to take a page from the successful public charter schools, and see what can be incorporated to improve the system?
My “wild guess” is that the answer from the GCs, bees and Michaels of the world will be NO. Therefore for the sake of my children and future generations of public school kids we have to say ENOUGH rhethoric and get some results NOW.

p.s. the best “propaganda” successful charter school like mine have is our scholars and the pride their take into their school and everyday accomplishments!
Philissa Cramer

I’ve been offline for a couple of days but I wanted to respond to a couple of points made here. First, our initial crowd count for UFT May 12 rally was a mistake. As GothamSchools’ editors, Elizabeth and I take responsibility for the error, which we corrected quickly.

You should note that we do frequently link to union sites and supporters in our Remainders section. We link often to Edwize, the union’s official blog, and occasionally also to articles in New York Teacher, the union’s newspaper. I don’t think we’ve ever linked directly to Educators 4 Excellence’s website, but just as we link to news stories large and small in which they are mentioned, so too do we link to all news stories we come across that involve the UFT.

Logistically speaking, we typically come across links for Remainders through our RSS readers, so anything that appears simply on a website and not in a blog is unlikely to come through that way. If you see something you think is worthy of a link but aren’t sure we’ll see it, feel free to email us at tips@gothamschools.org. I know it’s hard to believe, but we are only a small group of people and it is actually impossible for us to read the entire internet every day — we appreciate help.
http://twitter.com/BNiche B

HSA2mother: “The fact is that the DOD gives less money per child to charter schools than it does to traditional public schools.”

Hold up! Wait a minute…: http://gothamschools.org/2011/02/15/most-city-charters-receive-more-funds-than-districts-study-finds/

“Reversing its earlier findings, the city’s Independent Budget Office has concluded in a new study that most New York City charter schools receive more funding per student than their district school peers.”

As you can also see, those charters receive more per child for charters that are in DOE buildings, which would include co-located charters. The gap was closing last year and now has flipped over. Just reporting the facts, ma’am.
GC

HSA2mother: I didn’t know the Dept. of Defense (DOD) funded charter schools. Al Shanker was among the first proponents of charter schools, he might have had something to do with unionism, call me crazy. He, Sandra Feldman, and Randi Weingarten saw charters as schools that could become laboratories for best practices that all schools could learn from. The charter school movement has become all about MONEY, breaking unions, and a hobby of the idle rich who don’t know what to do with their money (such as buying 49% of the Mets). There are no studies that show that charters outperform traditional public schools nationwide. There are great charters, good ones, mediocre ones, and horrible ones, just like the traditional public schools. Your facts are wrong, B, the lady on the video you won’t watch, Julie Cavanaugh, Diane Ravitch, Linda Darling Hammond, and yes, the stats from the NYC DOE all show this. Put down the Charter Kool Aid. You don’t know anything about unions, a progressive force in this country for over a hundred years. Or do you want to go back to child labor, an 80 hr work week, and a “Please can I have some more?” Dickensian existence? Unions work for human rights, health care, better working conditions, and advocate for children, the poor, health care. Just like rich people right?
GC

Why don’t you rectify the earlier understandable error (using the stats from the NY POST, AP, - you don’t have a large organization to cover everything everywhere) and link to the slideshow pictures and/or video from uft.org ? I believe that would dispel some of the charges you refer to. Or will the
efforts of 20,000 plus people who marched after work / school continue to be underreported on this, the most important site for educational news, analysis, and commentary in NYC?
HSA2mother

@GC:”Unions work for human rights, health care, better working conditions, and advocate for children, the poor, health care.”You are right -I’m not anti -union and I just wish the UFT really had our children’s interest at heart but this isn’t sadly the case here. Your visceral hate of public charter school and their “rich advocates” doesn’t allow you to admit that some charter schools are doing a great job- not all I agree- but those than do should be supported by anybody that claims to have our children’s interest first. As I said before is just dirty politics.Finally I hope that if you are an English teacher, you are a bit more forgiving with students when they make a mistake or a typo. You see I’m ESL- Sorry!
GC

@HSA2 Mom: You say,” I do hope that you are not elementary school Math teachers really- I would not like my kids be learning the math facts from you.” smearing a whole group of people and being sarcastic. All well and good. So when I am snarky right back at you for a minor error you made you can’t take it, and extrapolate that this is how I treat kids your comment , “.Finally I hope that if you are an English teacher, you are a bit more forgiving with students when they make a mistake or a typo. You see I’m ESL- Sorry!show more “? If you dish it out, you should be able to take it. You aren’t a child, you are an adult commenting on a blog posting. I won’t make the leap that you virulently hate all non charter school teachers. You said: “doesn’t allow you to admit that some charter schools are doing a great job” I had previously said,”There are great charters, good ones, mediocre ones, and horrible ones, just like traditional publc schools.” I can’t admit some charters do well? Really? That certainly is not a typo or minor error that people are picking on you for is it?
American_dreamer

GC. I am familiar with the GEM site as well as Ed Notes. Book about two hours a day reading, watching videos and doing various research on educational reform. Will continue to keep an opened mind and listen to all sides of the ongoing debate. This is difficult to do when elected officials such as Gail Brewer threaten to strangle people like me. It is equally difficult when I attend public hearing and have racial epitaphs screamed at me. Sometimes I am treated to a lengthy explanation of how I am just a pawn, or how I simply do not understand, or how I am not capable of understanding. The latest tact, personal threats of harm to myself and my children is also fascinating. Sadly for me, I am from the twin towers and have had all the fear blown out of me by the impact of the planes. Threats will only strengthen my resolve. So please continue to do what you believe to be correct and I will do the same. Good luck and look forward to seeing you and Norman Scott at the public hearings.
Diaz

I can’t say that I am as knowledgeable on all the political issues that surround the problems between charters and public schools. I’m learning more by reading these posts and other sources. So I definitely won’t have many facts to throw out there for rebuttal and I don’t intend on insulting anyone’s opinion here. It’s just disheartening to see such a divide amongst charter schools and traditional public schools.
I’m not against the traditional public school since I have experienced being apart of the public school system as a student and have met many wonderful teachers and administrators in my lifetime. However, I chose my daughter’s charter school since I heard it was a great school and wanted to give it a try. She has had a good experience there and I would like for her to continue to attend but not at the expense of the children in the other public schools.
It’s appalling to hear that there are classrooms placed next to boiler rooms and that there’s an inequitable distribution of resources. I’m sorry but this is just simply unacceptable and something I was unaware of until now. We should be fighting together for all the children just not some of them.
If one of the possible solutions is placing charter schools (like the Success Academies) in their own building to avoid overcrowding and hazardous conditions, why isn’t it being done? Whether other charter school parents want to admit it or not, the battle for space is growing tiring and as mentioned before it’s just not okay if it is risking the well being and quality of education of the children in the other public schools.
GC

It is being done because the start up costs and overhead are much reduced. It allows a more rapid expansion of charter schools, which otherwise would have to wait for new construction. Highly desirable to the party that is getting the lion’s share of space and funding, highly undesirable to the party that loses resources
and space to a colocating school. If the charter doesnt work out, there is no lease to get out of or building to sell. This also happens in Magnet schools, where a building has been split into 4 to form a campus out of one formerly large comprehensive high school. Everyone hustles for space and resources, money is wasted hiring 4 principals to duplicate the function of the original 1, there are rivalries between “schools”, some seem to be haves while others are have nots, creating jealousy among students, staff, and parents. This is a poorly conceived and expensive policy, and it is dividing communities as much as when Robert Moses destroyed neighborhoods in the Bronx with highway construction. Parents of both traditional and charters schools will fight over space and resources, while contractors and operating companies reap the monetary rewards.
diaz

Thank you for sharing this information.
American_dreamer

Your side is fond of saying “Whose schools … Our schools”. That is the truth they are our schools. Not yours or mine, but ours. However, the schools are in disrepair. An alarming percentage of our Children are not capable of passing the state tests, which should be a beginning point not an end point of their education. Rather than working with us your side openly threatens us. I am very concerned about the boilers in the schools which still use #6 (the dirtiest) heating oil. I am equally suspicious of a boiler failure that occurred in a collocated school after a law suit was filed against collocation. Has this ever occurred before at that location? Seems very suspicious to me, and as your side is openly threatening my life it is hard for me to believe that they would not sabotage a boiler for more press.
Your line of reasoning sounds familiar to me. A little like the Naxalite Maoist insurgents in India who sight capitalists as the root of all evil. They also use violence and threats of to “reform” schools. They are fond of beheading teachers to prevent them from spreading capitalist doctrines. My cousins stand un armed in opposition to them, so I have no problem standing in opposition to you.
bee

I concur with you GC, but I will also point out that public Magnet schools differ greatly from charters in that they are held to the same rules as neighborhood public schools, unlike charter schools. Teachers at Magnet and neighborhood public schools must be certified, unlike charter schools which only require a certain percentage to be certified and the principles of neighborhood and Magnet schools receive a salary schedule that is reasonable and appropriate, as compared to the charter school entrepreneurs, a few of whom we know to receive salaries that are well over $300,000. (more than the chancellor receives) There is also the question of oversight, and lack of transparency that permeates charter schools. Who is making sure that the finances in some of these charter schools are above reproach, particularly since so many consultant scandals are coming to light? Are there not “charter management consultants” and private companies that have a “vested financial interest,” in the outcome of the charter schools they consult for? Our school children should not be seen as a commodity.This is one of the tragedies of the corporate school agenda, competition for resources detracts from our children and their education. It also is demoralizing for our learning communities. In short, I too, feel that the focus should be on improving all our neighborhood schools and Magnet schools, with a focus on neighborhood schools as they serve more children. They should not be vying for space with each other. As for charter schools, no thank you, I just don’t think they make sense financially or educationally.
GC

Yes, that about sums it up bee
GC

I was considering a thoughtful reply to your post until your last paragraph or so when you started talking about Communist guerillas, beheadings of teachers, armed opposition, and not so subtle threats.
American_dreamer

The existing risk at the zoned schools is what is the most disturbing. What’s worse is the tactics being used against the charter schools and parents like you and I who want a better school for their children and are willing to participate on a day to day basis. Six pages of home work, reading a book together, then independent reading.(quizzing to make sure they did the independent reading) … every day. A trip to the library once or twice a week, getting in to School by 7:45 am sharp, in uniform, clean, well groomed, and ready to learn, is not easy. Can you believe there are even UFT writers impersonating us on these pages? It is really sad how much hate they are generating towards us. It is really tragic that they are doing their worst to us while we strive to do the best for our children. Not seeing the criminal misappropriation of facilities that are being reported in my collocated charter school. If you are witnessing atrocities recommend you report them.
HSA2mother

The only comment I have to add to American Dreamer remarks is that colocation in public schools building existed WELL before charter schools started moving it. It has been a standard practice of the DOE in buildings that are not at 100% occupancy- It just happens as you would expect that many parents won’t simply send their kids to public schools (specially a failing one) if they have or can afford a choice for something they consider a better option for them. No problem here of course. Unfortunately not everybody can do that. Let me state two things: in my ideal world public schools should be the best and free for everyone- rich and poor- and that public schools buildings belong to all of us. I pay my taxes, my kids are entitled to public building space.
Enter Charter Schools, run privately with public funds- and yes right there there you can see how suddenly colocation will become a heated political issue worth of a law suit and all-especially if some of these educational “experiments” outperformed the traditional model. I get it. You see they don’t play with the same rules- they are free to try things that can actually be good for our kids- but really bad for collective bargain… So instead of sitting down and negotiate and see what we can all do to get along and improve our whole public educational system, let’s just fight these dangerous invaders an portrait them as the cause of all what has been and it is still wrong with the system. Nice one!Finally I did witness some unfair space allocation on my school last year: the Dean of Student’s office was also the teaching supply closet! . I should have taken a picture, this way you didn’t have to take my word for it but somehow it didn’t seen to bother him that much…
Diaz

It just so happens that I have another child who will be attending public school since he has an IEP that mandates a self-contained classroom (a program that the success academies don’t currently have). I can’t help but to now feel that one of my children will be receiving the bacon while the other will have to make do with the resources that his school is being given and I am in no way insulting the public school system, what I am saying is that the DOE should be improving ALL our public schools for the sake of giving all these children a fair educational opportunity.
It’s like putting all public schools in a bowl (including charter) then scooping some out and telling those who were scooped out that they’ll have to make do with the limited resources they have, while those who are still in the bowl receive all the ingredients for a great outcome. This isn’t just.
I listen when I am in school meetings (re: lawsuits against charter schools and our need to fight to keep them open) and we are spoken about our side and reasoning, okay fine. However, the interesting part that my husband and I have noticed is that we haven’t been given the details of the opposing side’s fight (as mentioned in GC’s reply below).
I have had to open my mind because my son will be on the opposite side of that battle field with the public schools who will be providing him with the educational services he needs and I will need to fight for him.
The inequitable distribution of resources in no way can be rationalized because we are all public schools. Our charter schools can fail at any given time and if that were to happen most of our children would have to attend these public schools. So we can’t turn our backs and say oh well at least my kid is getting his. If our children weren’t chosen by the lottery we would have found ourselves fighting on the opposite of the fence.
The DOE needs to get their act together and make education right for everyone.

Also I will mention that education also comes from the home. Many parents and advocates are quick to blame the public school system for failing our kids but circumstances outside of school highly impacts the way our children learn and retain information. So it isn’t entirely the public school system’s responsibility to educate our kids, it is ours as well. This is across the board no matter where your child attends…we can’t just look at the public school reports and interrupt it as the school administration solely, there is a lot more to be read in between the lines.
Diaz

It just so happens that I have another child who will be attending public school since he has an IEP that mandates a self-contained classroom (a program that the success academies don’t currently have). I can’t help but to now feel that one of my children will be receiving the bacon while the other will have to make do with the resources that his school is being given and I am in no way insulting the public school system, what I am saying is that the DOE should be improving ALL our public schools for the sake of giving all these children a fair educational opportunity.
It’s like putting all public schools in a bowl (including charter) then scooping some out and telling those who were scooped out that they’ll have to make do with the limited resources they have, while those who are still in the bowl receive all the ingredients for a great outcome. This isn’t just.
I listen when I am in school meetings (re: lawsuits against charter schools and our need to fight to keep them open) and we are spoken about our side and reasoning, okay fine. However, the interesting part that my husband and I have noticed is that we haven’t been given the details of the opposing side’s fight (as mentioned in GC’s reply below).
I have had to open my mind because my son will be on the opposite side of that battle field with the public schools who will be providing him with the educational services he needs and I will need to fight for him.
The inequitable distribution of resources in no way can be rationalized because we are all public schools. Our charter schools can fail at any given time and if that were to happen most of our children would have to attend these public schools. So we can’t turn our backs and say oh well at least my kid is getting his. If our children weren’t chosen by the lottery we would have found ourselves fighting on the opposite of the fence.
The DOE needs to get their act together and make education right for everyone.

Also I will mention that education also comes from the home. Many parents and advocates are quick to blame the public school system for failing our kids but circumstances outside of school highly impacts the way our children learn and retain information. So it isn’t entirely the public school system’s responsibility to educate our kids, it is ours as well. This is across the board no matter where your child attends…we can’t just look at the public school reports and interrupt it as the school administration solely, there is a lot more to be read in between the lines.
Diaz

*interpret – correction for interrupt
American_dreamer

Insults, and more insult, very sad Mr. Fiorillo. But no need to worry about a participating parent’s opinion like myself or other charter parents; after all you have insulted us before as having chips in our heads and we are some sort of controlled robots only capable of repeating the same old buzz words. Perhaps if you engage parents in a more positive manner you can build better support for your position.
Michael Fiorillo

American_dreamer,

A few rebuttals, and a final point of agreement:

First of all, I insulted Eva Moskowitz (and stand by that), not parents. You try to put words in my mouth by saying that I called parents “robots,” that have “chips in our heads.” That’s false and I challenge you to find where I said that in this thread.

I did say that the very sudden influx of many pro-HSA statements on the site felt orchestrated, which is a very different contention, and which I also stand by. Is it such a stretch that a woman who spends over a million dollars on PR to inflate the appearance of demand for her handful of schools is incapable or unwilling to do something as straightforward as that? Don’t forget that the woman was (is?) a politician before she became an education privateer.

And, again, before you attack me for opposing your right to speak, everything I’m describing is perfectly legal, constitutionally protected, and in many ways politics-as-usual. But that’s part of he deception and hypocrisy, that people (Bloomberg/Moskowitz as proxies for the entire ed deform power elite) with an aggressive will to power pretend that they are above politics and self interest, when in fact it permeates everything they do.

And I don’t think it’s insulting to make the point that public school and charter school parents are being pitted against one another by the administration, and that many of the people posting on this site refuse to deal with that irrefutable fact.

Finally, we do have one point of agreement. To the extent that I am angry, insulting, intolerant and vituperative, you nailed it in a previous comment of yours: it can only be because I’m a Naxalite Maoist, just waiting to behead those who disagree with me.

I never realized it before; I always assumed Ken Hirsch and Kitchen Sink were right, and that I was just a garden variety, paranoid, deluded conspiracy freak. But even they could not plumb the depths of my true, un-American evil, as you have.
GC

Beheadings, threats, McCarthyist witch hunting, paranoia, wild accusations, name calling … then turn around and accuse the other side that offers statistics and rational arguments of exactly what you are doing.
Keep up the good work, American-dreamer, better material than Stephen
Colbert. Keep that truthiness going!
GC

Diaz, DOE has been making it harder and harder for students who need instructional support services to get the services they need. If you feel you are getting the runaround, go to an advocate, call the UFT, Carmen Alvarez/Spec Ed, they will advocate for you, and don’t be afraid to take
them to an impartial hearing if you have to, DOE’s standard operating procedure is intimidation and stifling parent voice. Many parents don’t know what they are entitled to and get bullied into placements. And once again they are raising class size for kids in special ed, and limiting how often and where they receive speech and language and hearing services, among others. As you see, charters don’t take on the kids who need the most help, that would mess up their numbers. There are some charters that do a fine job but most will shy away from accepting kids with poor behavior, low scores, or those who need expensive related services. Those that do get accepted mostly have the mildest issues. As you know, if you are on grade level in reading and math, but need physical therapy, hearing services, speech, you get an IEP, charters like to pass these off as the same as having kids who are low functioning on the autism spectrum, severe emotional / behavioral issues, multi handicapped or severe and profound disabilities. On a stat. sheet, they look the same, and they say, “See, we include special needs kids”. Also, even if Success or any of the others offerred these services, rest assured the teachers will be the bottom of the barrel as this is still a shortage area in the NYC public schools that DOE has $ budgeted for recruitment while they want to lay off thousands. Think about it: if you were a speech teacher, or any other, with excellent credentials, experience, and reccomendations, why would you work for a charter, the ed. equivalent of a sweat shop where you could be fired for virtually any reason (including discussing the UFT salary scale, unionizing, not kissing up) when you could work at a job with better benefits and protections? Really, who would they retain more than a year or so?

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