We must have a committee of retired teachers and supervisors running our schools. Having directly served in the trenches, they know what teachers and children need to succeed in school.
Too bad Meryl Tisch can’t fire Joel Klein. I love the way these chancellors need waivers to have their jobs. Imagine Klein in a classroom. He wouldn’t last an hour. I understand he did per-diem work in the schools. He knew when to get out. Infact, most of our supervisors were expert at getting out of the classroom as soon as they could.

It is not the fault of the excessed teachers that their student population dropped or that they are active in the union or differ with their principal regarding pedagogical methodology. These principals, many from the infamous Leadership Academy, are using excessing as an excuse to get rid of experienced people and bring in those who they can easily intimidate.

Many of these excessed teachers came have Common Branches licenses and were teaching in schools with a grade 6. What’s the problem? How come we rarely hear of a supervisor being excessed or laid off? What’s going on at Tweed? The UFT continues to do little to nothing to ameliorate the situation. Why did the UFT give up bumping rights in the outrageous 2005 contract? The UFT has become nothing more than a collection agency. Why should they work hard for teachers when they are voted in by landslide votes? Every person-teacher, guidance counselor, secretary, psychologist, social worker, etc needs to be in their own separate bargaining unit.
How could the UFT leadership allow school to open 1 day for Sept. 8th before closing for the Rosh Hashanah observance? The state legislature mandates a 180 day year. In N.Y.C., you have much more than that. There was no problem. This is a perfect example of a union in full compliance with the horrible Bloomberg-Klein regime of no-nothing education. Why did the union do nothing for Bill Thompson? Where were they on that one? What were they afraid of? Could it be any worse?
Sorry to digress, but the UFT is definitely part of the problem here. EXCESSED TEACHERS MUST BE BROUGHT BACK TO FULL-TIME TEACHING. THEY DID NOT EARN MASTER’S DEGREES TO BE SUBJECTED TO SUBSTITUTE WORK. LET MULGREW, WEINGARTEN, KLEIN, and his spokespeople-Ann Forte, Margie Feinberg and other do-nothings do some atr work and see how they like it. They can even wake up Denis Walcott for this as he does nothing but sleep away the day.
With so many children, reading below level, how can the city excess reading teachers? The UFT demonstrates for every other cause. How about a HUGE DEMONSTRATION IN FRONT OF TWEED FOR EXCESSED TEACHERS AND OTHERS/

If the union says, It’s the best we could do.”….Then they shouldn’t.

you said,

“and no, I ABSOLUTELY wouldn’t trust the judgment of random other principals, though certainly some of the ones I know well. as many people on this blog point out, some are good and some are not. some are diligent and some are not. some have solid judgment and some do not. some are vindictive and some are not. I cared deeply about my kids–why would I hire blindly? Teachers and kids are humans, and schools are unique. It’s important to find a good fit.”

Thank you! Enough said. If you wouldn’t trust your fellow principals’ judgment over their evaluations, then it should be obvious that ATRs should not have their livelihoods determined by how they did during “interviews” or conducting “demo lessons” in front of such principals.

but vote no, I don’t see fire fighters and teachers as comparable, though they both do hard, noble work.

and no, I ABSOLUTELY wouldn’t trust the judgment of random other principals, though certainly some of the ones I know well. as many people on this blog point out, some are good and some are not. some are diligent and some are not. some have solid judgment and some do not. some are vindictive and some are not. I cared deeply about my kids–why would I hire blindly? Teachers and kids are humans, and schools are unique. It’s important to find a good fit.

and Jeff, I don’t disagree. I can’t speak for whether it’s possible for the leadership academy to prepare folks, but I do know people that went in there after already having been an AP in the system. I agree that younger people often lack the wisdom and experience of older folks but I suspect we’d both agree we could find examples of good young(er) principals and bad old(er) principals, though they might be more the exception? I don’t know. but my original point was that people write as though sooooo many of the principals of nyc schools are young graduates from the leadership academy, and that’s just not my experience. lots of older principals out there, as well as principals (young and old) who took a more traditional route.

I do think it’s in everyone’s best interest to find a solution to the ATR problem (certainly, as a tax payer, I think it needs to be solved). I’m not sure what the answer is. I know what things were like before the current system and that was pretty crappy, too.

http://www.uft.org/news/issues/reports/2008-06-atrs-and-new-teacher-project.pdf

Case Study in Partisanship
A Critique of The New Teacher Project Report
“Mutual Benefits: New York City’s Shift to Mutual Consent in Teacher Hiring”
June 3, 2008

2005 Contractual Changes in Staffing Rules
“The contract terms were very specific: the DOE was to place into a new position in the same district any excessed teachers who were not reabsorbed into their schools or hired into the replacement school, providing both the teacher and the receiving principal agreed. This latter proviso maintained the choice aspect of the new transfer system. In the meantime, teachers would be assigned to the Absent Teacher Reserve pool in their schools, or in their districts if their home school closed, at their current salary, while they looked for new positions. This would give those schools a reliable source of experienced teachers to serve as substitutes or in other institutional capacities who were already familiar with the school and its students.

As became evident, the DOE did not uphold its end of this agreement, and TNTP used the DOE’s mismanagement as an opportunity to try to get what the city sought from the start.”

Closing Schools and “Excessing”
“The UFT negotiating team warned the DOE before the 2005 contract was signed that the new Open Market Transfer System would result in a growing pool of unassigned teachers, but the DOE said it was prepared to pay that price for the changes it wanted. The UFT raised concerns about the waste of money and talent, but the DOE did not seem worried at the time. However, growing pressure on the DOE to cut spending has made the presence of these teachers increasingly controversial.”

My other problem, and let me say out front I have always been a secondary school person both as a teacher and a long time Math Assistant Principal, there is no way on the secondary level that a Principal can possibly be up to date on all the various things that go into subject area pedagogy. A Principal might be a fine English educator but would not have a clue as to whether a person teaching a math lesson indeed was teaching the math correctly which is by far the most important attribute a secondary school teacher must have. I am not prepared as I have little experience to discuss the elementary schools and the middle schools.

You do realize that your question is already biased. I have seen the young, persistent, passionate and willing teachers that principals have hired but it became my job (without any additional pay mind you) to help them with content and pedagogical techniques. One demo lesson will not show anybody how capable a teacher is. I teach mathematics for many years and I have mentored and helped many new teachers. I am not the exception by any means.

“What I’m saying is that those who think they are entitled are a problem. If they think they should be hired despite doing the minimum to show us their skills.”

ATRs are hired, they are current employees without a position. Why should they have to perform a “demo lesson” when they have been working for the DOE for many years? If they have been rated satisfactory by their principals and APs, shouldn’t that be enough? Unless you are suggesting that you don’t trust the judgment of your fellow administrators?

The principals I’ve worked for really have never had the time to observe “demo lessons” from every prospective teacher. They have their schedules full just trying to keep their buildings functioning in some very adverse conditions.

Are you saying the NYC DOE does not know the quality of its own employees? Many who have worked in the system for years! They have files in their schools with scores of observations, and letters, plus the references of their current, or former administrators.

Are NYC firefighters from closed firehouses thrown into an “AFR” pool? Are they being asked by other firehouse commanders to demonstrate that they know how to put out a fire, or perform emergency first aid before they are placed in a new firehouse? The answer is NO! Are their jobs any less important than teachers? After all they are being asked to risk their lives to save the lives of others.

Then you said:

“If they think they deserve jobs with parking spaces, when others in this economy are taking what they can get. If they think that age should equal an automatic paycheck. That is the problem.”

The PROBLEM IS that too many workers in this country are getting squeezed, and having to “take what they can get.” This mindset has to change, and quickly! The future of this country depends on it. Too many workers are struggling just to make ends meet, and employers want to throw more work on their shoulders, for lower wages, and fewer benefits.

Yet the politicians, and business executives wonder why the economy is not recovering in spite of record low tax rates, record low interest rates, and massive amounts of government spending.

Throwing satisfactorily rated veteran teachers onto the unemployment line is NOT going to do anything to improve education in NYC. However, it will add more families to the millions in this country who are struggling to pay their mortgages, and feed, their children. As well as increasing the enrollment of public assistance programs such as food stamps, and medicaid which nearly bankrupt states can’t afford currently.

When I was a principal, I’d get LOTS of applications for any given job (except for science positions, which are much harder to fill than others, I think). And when my team and I chose candidates, we were not interested in someone who just sent a letter through open hire, didn’t check out our website, didn’t respond to our letter back, didn’t want to come for a demo lesson, and whose only question was about parking.

My job is not to make the system fair for adults, so I don’t really want to argue about Klein and all that. But if you were trying to staff your school and you REALLY DIDN’T CARE ABOUT THE MONEY (why would I lie on an anonymous blog, after all) but you wanted the best for your student, would you pick they young, persistent, passionate, willing teacher who comes out and shows you what he can do with a room full of kids, or would you pick the teacher who doesn’t think he should have to do a demo lesson and is more concerned about parking?

My experience MAY be the exception, and I’m sure that there have been great teachers who were excessed through no fault of their own. So hear me clearly. What I’m saying is that those who think they are entitled are a problem. If they think they should be hired despite doing the minimum to show us their skills. If they think they deserve jobs with parking spaces, when others in this economy are taking what they can get. If they think that age should equal an automatic paycheck. That is the problem.