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	<title>Comments on: Garrulous Mr. Gates</title>
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	<link>http://gothamschools.org/2010/07/14/garrulous-mr-gates/</link>
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		<title>By: Porky</title>
		<link>http://gothamschools.org/2010/07/14/garrulous-mr-gates/comment-page-1/#comment-337368</link>
		<dc:creator>Porky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Jan 2011 23:01:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gothamschools.org/?p=42522#comment-337368</guid>
		<description>After examine a couple of of the blog posts on your website now, and I really like your means of blogging. I bookmarked it to my bookmark web site listing and might be checking back soon. Pls take a look at my website online as well and let me know what you think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After examine a couple of of the blog posts on your website now, and I really like your means of blogging. I bookmarked it to my bookmark web site listing and might be checking back soon. Pls take a look at my website online as well and let me know what you think.</p>
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		<title>By: Arthur Goldstein</title>
		<link>http://gothamschools.org/2010/07/14/garrulous-mr-gates/comment-page-1/#comment-278581</link>
		<dc:creator>Arthur Goldstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jul 2010 21:27:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gothamschools.org/?p=42522#comment-278581</guid>
		<description>Somehow I keep hearing, &quot;If I were a hedge fund..&quot;  It doesn&#039;t make much sense, but what does these days?   </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somehow I keep hearing, &#8220;If I were a hedge fund..&#8221;  It doesn&#8217;t make much sense, but what does these days?   </p>
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		<title>By: CarolineSF</title>
		<link>http://gothamschools.org/2010/07/14/garrulous-mr-gates/comment-page-1/#comment-278580</link>
		<dc:creator>CarolineSF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jul 2010 21:19:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gothamschools.org/?p=42522#comment-278580</guid>
		<description>Oh,boy, does that beg for a parody, Arthur. But yes, even the real words work pretty well -- time for a flash mob at the next Bill Gates appearance? I&#039;m bringing my accordion.

The most important men in town will come to fawn on me/They will ask me to advise them/Like a Solomon the wise/If you please, Reb Bill Gates/Pardon me, Reb Bill Gates/Posing problems that would cross a teacher&#039;s eyes/And it won&#039;t make one bit of difference if I answer right or wrong/When you&#039;re rich they think you really know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh,boy, does that beg for a parody, Arthur. But yes, even the real words work pretty well &#8212; time for a flash mob at the next Bill Gates appearance? I&#8217;m bringing my accordion.</p>
<p>The most important men in town will come to fawn on me/They will ask me to advise them/Like a Solomon the wise/If you please, Reb Bill Gates/Pardon me, Reb Bill Gates/Posing problems that would cross a teacher&#8217;s eyes/And it won&#8217;t make one bit of difference if I answer right or wrong/When you&#8217;re rich they think you really know.</p>
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		<title>By: Arthur Goldstein</title>
		<link>http://gothamschools.org/2010/07/14/garrulous-mr-gates/comment-page-1/#comment-278576</link>
		<dc:creator>Arthur Goldstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jul 2010 21:11:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gothamschools.org/?p=42522#comment-278576</guid>
		<description>&quot;...so-called reformers cannot even put together a coherent argument to support their desired programs.&quot;

That&#039;s a remarkably simple statement, and seems to say it all.  I&#039;m still waiting for one solitary example of the contract to which Gates referred, which he claimed reflected a &quot;normal&quot; school.  And even if one is found, in some distant universe, how on earth can it be construed as &quot;normal?&quot;

One of the good things about having billions of dollars is no one bothers you with such troublesome questions.  I&#039;m reminded of the song in Fiddler on the Roof, where Tevye the milkman confides, &quot;When you&#039;re rich, they think you really know...&quot;

Still, one would hope union leaders and members would know better.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;so-called reformers cannot even put together a coherent argument to support their desired programs.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a remarkably simple statement, and seems to say it all.  I&#8217;m still waiting for one solitary example of the contract to which Gates referred, which he claimed reflected a &#8220;normal&#8221; school.  And even if one is found, in some distant universe, how on earth can it be construed as &#8220;normal?&#8221;</p>
<p>One of the good things about having billions of dollars is no one bothers you with such troublesome questions.  I&#8217;m reminded of the song in Fiddler on the Roof, where Tevye the milkman confides, &#8220;When you&#8217;re rich, they think you really know&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Still, one would hope union leaders and members would know better.  </p>
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		<title>By: Alexander Hoffman</title>
		<link>http://gothamschools.org/2010/07/14/garrulous-mr-gates/comment-page-1/#comment-278392</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexander Hoffman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jul 2010 21:48:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gothamschools.org/?p=42522#comment-278392</guid>
		<description>To me, that&#039;s the key.

He by dint of his money and willingness to spend it enormously influential in areas in which he has no practical experience or formal course of study. Thus, he is in no position to evaluate the truth of what he told, or even the plausibility. Instead, he must go by his own &quot;common sense,&quot; and then find people who agree with that &quot;common sense.&quot;

This is no different than our elected leaders, but we -- as a society -- have the option to remove those leaders. We do not have that option with Mr. Gates, and nor do the people of other countries. 

The reason why I am committed to education, and why I believe even our best schools have a long way to go, is that so many people make this sort of mistake. They are not thoughtful enough even to realize when their own example and reasoning undermine their conclusion. Obviously, as human beings are perfectly capable of -- and prone to -- reformulating our reasoning to match our desired conclusions, but Mr. Gates -- a college drop out -- is not even doing that.

One again, so-called reformers cannot even put together a coherent argument to support their desired programs. That&#039;s no surprise. The shocking thing is that this particular guy not only get people who need his money to listen to him, but that he gets others to give him greater and greater platforms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To me, that&#8217;s the key.</p>
<p>He by dint of his money and willingness to spend it enormously influential in areas in which he has no practical experience or formal course of study. Thus, he is in no position to evaluate the truth of what he told, or even the plausibility. Instead, he must go by his own &#8220;common sense,&#8221; and then find people who agree with that &#8220;common sense.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is no different than our elected leaders, but we &#8212; as a society &#8212; have the option to remove those leaders. We do not have that option with Mr. Gates, and nor do the people of other countries. </p>
<p>The reason why I am committed to education, and why I believe even our best schools have a long way to go, is that so many people make this sort of mistake. They are not thoughtful enough even to realize when their own example and reasoning undermine their conclusion. Obviously, as human beings are perfectly capable of &#8212; and prone to &#8212; reformulating our reasoning to match our desired conclusions, but Mr. Gates &#8212; a college drop out &#8212; is not even doing that.</p>
<p>One again, so-called reformers cannot even put together a coherent argument to support their desired programs. That&#8217;s no surprise. The shocking thing is that this particular guy not only get people who need his money to listen to him, but that he gets others to give him greater and greater platforms.</p>
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		<title>By: Arthur Goldstein</title>
		<link>http://gothamschools.org/2010/07/14/garrulous-mr-gates/comment-page-1/#comment-278390</link>
		<dc:creator>Arthur Goldstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jul 2010 21:26:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gothamschools.org/?p=42522#comment-278390</guid>
		<description>I couldn&#039;t agree more.  Another question is whether or not Gates is aware of the contradiction.  If so, he&#039;s disingenuous.  If not, he&#039;s quite careless, even reckless for someone with such self-granted and wide-ranging influence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I couldn&#8217;t agree more.  Another question is whether or not Gates is aware of the contradiction.  If so, he&#8217;s disingenuous.  If not, he&#8217;s quite careless, even reckless for someone with such self-granted and wide-ranging influence.</p>
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		<title>By: Alexander Hoffman</title>
		<link>http://gothamschools.org/2010/07/14/garrulous-mr-gates/comment-page-1/#comment-278381</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexander Hoffman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jul 2010 20:27:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gothamschools.org/?p=42522#comment-278381</guid>
		<description>Gates was exited when he spoke of KIPP because, &quot;The teacher was running around, and the energy level is high … and the teacher was constantly scanning to see which kids weren’t paying attention, which kids were bored and calling on kids rapidly, putting things up on the board…keeping people engaged and setting the tone that everyone in the classroom needs to pay attention.&quot;

And Gates thinks that watching a recording of a great teacher is the same thing as being taught.

We don&#039;t need to convince him that he&#039;s wrong. We just need to convince him that he is right. That is, he was right the first time.

****************************

But this is a basic mistake that a lot of people make, especially people in very technical fields (law, IT, etc.). There is a difference between explaining and teaching. Explaining is a part of teaching, but not close to the most important part. 

Diagnosing and inspiring are much harder. Even Gates can realize how important they are when he sees them, but for some reason he forgets when he tries to come up with prescriptive solutions. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gates was exited when he spoke of KIPP because, &#8220;The teacher was running around, and the energy level is high … and the teacher was constantly scanning to see which kids weren’t paying attention, which kids were bored and calling on kids rapidly, putting things up on the board…keeping people engaged and setting the tone that everyone in the classroom needs to pay attention.&#8221;</p>
<p>And Gates thinks that watching a recording of a great teacher is the same thing as being taught.</p>
<p>We don&#8217;t need to convince him that he&#8217;s wrong. We just need to convince him that he is right. That is, he was right the first time.</p>
<p>****************************</p>
<p>But this is a basic mistake that a lot of people make, especially people in very technical fields (law, IT, etc.). There is a difference between explaining and teaching. Explaining is a part of teaching, but not close to the most important part. </p>
<p>Diagnosing and inspiring are much harder. Even Gates can realize how important they are when he sees them, but for some reason he forgets when he tries to come up with prescriptive solutions. </p>
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		<title>By: Akademos</title>
		<link>http://gothamschools.org/2010/07/14/garrulous-mr-gates/comment-page-1/#comment-277982</link>
		<dc:creator>Akademos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jul 2010 14:48:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gothamschools.org/?p=42522#comment-277982</guid>
		<description>Right, and on the 17th year they come out of the ground like a cicada and start all over again, oddly repackaged in any old political party, yet seemingly middle-of-the-road and sincere at first blush.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right, and on the 17th year they come out of the ground like a cicada and start all over again, oddly repackaged in any old political party, yet seemingly middle-of-the-road and sincere at first blush.</p>
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		<title>By: Arthur Goldstein</title>
		<link>http://gothamschools.org/2010/07/14/garrulous-mr-gates/comment-page-1/#comment-277974</link>
		<dc:creator>Arthur Goldstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jul 2010 14:10:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gothamschools.org/?p=42522#comment-277974</guid>
		<description>Actually, I believe a mayor or chancellor gets three terms, not years, to improve.  If they fail to do so, they have to change laws and spend another 150 million bucks to get a fourth term.

No transformation models or closings for them. Business is completely different.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I believe a mayor or chancellor gets three terms, not years, to improve.  If they fail to do so, they have to change laws and spend another 150 million bucks to get a fourth term.</p>
<p>No transformation models or closings for them. Business is completely different.</p>
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		<title>By: I noticed that...</title>
		<link>http://gothamschools.org/2010/07/14/garrulous-mr-gates/comment-page-1/#comment-277972</link>
		<dc:creator>I noticed that...</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jul 2010 14:02:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gothamschools.org/?p=42522#comment-277972</guid>
		<description>With some slight changes:  Once somebody has [been a mayor or chancellor] for three years, their [leadership] quality does not improve thereafter.

Jim,

I guess Bloomberg and Klein have not improved in their 9th year in office.  Gates should inform them that they reached a plateau.

Oh wait a minute, Jim, you&#039;re right.  Business is totally different...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With some slight changes:  Once somebody has [been a mayor or chancellor] for three years, their [leadership] quality does not improve thereafter.</p>
<p>Jim,</p>
<p>I guess Bloomberg and Klein have not improved in their 9th year in office.  Gates should inform them that they reached a plateau.</p>
<p>Oh wait a minute, Jim, you&#8217;re right.  Business is totally different&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Mothersbaugh</title>
		<link>http://gothamschools.org/2010/07/14/garrulous-mr-gates/comment-page-1/#comment-277922</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Mothersbaugh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jul 2010 05:24:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gothamschools.org/?p=42522#comment-277922</guid>
		<description>First off, I am a parent, a teacher, a citizen, AND a student; I don&#039;t like having to select just one!
Just one comment: Gates says teachers don&#039;t improve after three years. So that means HE&#039;S not improved in the fourth-present years that he has run Microsoft? Oh, wait; I see. Business is different...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First off, I am a parent, a teacher, a citizen, AND a student; I don&#8217;t like having to select just one!<br />
Just one comment: Gates says teachers don&#8217;t improve after three years. So that means HE&#8217;S not improved in the fourth-present years that he has run Microsoft? Oh, wait; I see. Business is different&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Arthur Goldstein</title>
		<link>http://gothamschools.org/2010/07/14/garrulous-mr-gates/comment-page-1/#comment-277872</link>
		<dc:creator>Arthur Goldstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jul 2010 21:27:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gothamschools.org/?p=42522#comment-277872</guid>
		<description>Top,

Don&#039;t you think student teaching is at least somewhat akin to what you describe in Norway?


Also, I distinctly recall Circuit City following the model you described, getting rid of everyone who knew what a gigabyte was, and going out of business the following year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Top,</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t you think student teaching is at least somewhat akin to what you describe in Norway?</p>
<p>Also, I distinctly recall Circuit City following the model you described, getting rid of everyone who knew what a gigabyte was, and going out of business the following year.</p>
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		<title>By: Top</title>
		<link>http://gothamschools.org/2010/07/14/garrulous-mr-gates/comment-page-1/#comment-277831</link>
		<dc:creator>Top</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jul 2010 16:15:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gothamschools.org/?p=42522#comment-277831</guid>
		<description>Oh, I forgot. We have seen a decline in the customer service offered by corporations because they routinely get rid of their (higher paid) more experience workers for the lower wage inexperienced person we get to deal with. Works great for the bottom line of the company, but is not good for the people side of things....which is what schools work with.  The &quot;Blueberry Story&quot; comes to mind (http://www.jamievollmer.com/blue_story.html).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, I forgot. We have seen a decline in the customer service offered by corporations because they routinely get rid of their (higher paid) more experience workers for the lower wage inexperienced person we get to deal with. Works great for the bottom line of the company, but is not good for the people side of things&#8230;.which is what schools work with.  The &#8220;Blueberry Story&#8221; comes to mind (<a href="http://www.jamievollmer.com/blue_story.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.jamievollmer.com/blue_story.html</a>).</p>
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		<title>By: Top</title>
		<link>http://gothamschools.org/2010/07/14/garrulous-mr-gates/comment-page-1/#comment-277830</link>
		<dc:creator>Top</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jul 2010 16:11:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gothamschools.org/?p=42522#comment-277830</guid>
		<description>In reading the comments concerning the plateauing of teachers I recalled an old axiom referred to as the &quot;Peter Principle.&quot; This axiom states &quot;Sooner or later every person in a corporation will rise to or exceed the level of his or her own incompetence. Or as an old Marine Corps Master Sergeant read from Murphy&#039;s Law: Book 1: Corporations are like cesspools, the larger chunks tend to rise towards the top. So if these teachers weren&#039;t all that great at teaching with a Bachelors degree, getting a Masters may not necessarily help. What would help is to do something like they do in Norway, which does require all teacher to have a Masters to even start teaching. Norway puts new teachers IN the same class as their mentor teacher for five years. Students get two teachers, not one; everyone finds out if that new teacher is going to do a great job; and it allows new teachers to get experience guided by someone with practical knowledge so that if a mistake is made it will caught and corrected immediately, e.g. a student is &quot;scarred for life&quot; by someone&#039;s inexperience (not incompetence).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reading the comments concerning the plateauing of teachers I recalled an old axiom referred to as the &#8220;Peter Principle.&#8221; This axiom states &#8220;Sooner or later every person in a corporation will rise to or exceed the level of his or her own incompetence. Or as an old Marine Corps Master Sergeant read from Murphy&#8217;s Law: Book 1: Corporations are like cesspools, the larger chunks tend to rise towards the top. So if these teachers weren&#8217;t all that great at teaching with a Bachelors degree, getting a Masters may not necessarily help. What would help is to do something like they do in Norway, which does require all teacher to have a Masters to even start teaching. Norway puts new teachers IN the same class as their mentor teacher for five years. Students get two teachers, not one; everyone finds out if that new teacher is going to do a great job; and it allows new teachers to get experience guided by someone with practical knowledge so that if a mistake is made it will caught and corrected immediately, e.g. a student is &#8220;scarred for life&#8221; by someone&#8217;s inexperience (not incompetence).</p>
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		<title>By: Esteban Rodriguez</title>
		<link>http://gothamschools.org/2010/07/14/garrulous-mr-gates/comment-page-1/#comment-277673</link>
		<dc:creator>Esteban Rodriguez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jul 2010 12:12:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gothamschools.org/?p=42522#comment-277673</guid>
		<description>This article was picked up at democratic underground.


http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/6476</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This article was picked up at democratic underground.</p>
<p><a href="http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/6476" rel="nofollow">http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/6476</a></p>
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		<title>By: Akademos</title>
		<link>http://gothamschools.org/2010/07/14/garrulous-mr-gates/comment-page-1/#comment-277225</link>
		<dc:creator>Akademos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jul 2010 06:07:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gothamschools.org/?p=42522#comment-277225</guid>
		<description>Ari F.

The whole plateauing debate is old news. What&#039;s been demonstrated is a strong suggestion that given silly constraints people on average find their bearings and comply to the extent that student scores on silly assessments are achieved and maintained within about 3 or 4 years time. This doesn&#039;t necessarily mean anything regarding real teaching or real learning; it doesn&#039;t take into consideration burnout or stress from waves of failed reforms or insane school administrations; nor does it factor in any differentials between newbies vying for tenure (and perhaps starting out -- 1st year -- with the worst classes possible) and veterans starting families and/or falling into the grips of school cultures, conflicts, extra responsibilities, helping out newbies or other colleagues in a jam.

Now, granted, it&#039;s not a total waste of time to do these studies, but to go from their results to making the categorical statement that teachers don&#039;t improve, that their jobs on the whole are of such limited skill and creativity that they all flatline after three years, is a highly provocative and revealing spectacle. (We&#039;re talking about using human minds to work with and shape other  human minds! Incredible. To compare that to menial labor or tinkering with a product . . . ) And if you believe Gates has any real sense at all regarding education, you have to conclude that it&#039;s a willful misconstruction.

As far as making suggestions goes, Ravitch has been doing so over and over and over. The suggestions of many commenters at Gotham Schools parallel hers. I won&#039;t get into it here. But when SO MUCH is being swept under the rug, and SO MANY voices (and suggestions) studiously ignored and steamrolled over, mere suggestions don&#039;t seem to get very far. (Though, like I said, they&#039;ve been made, over and over and over.) Timely exposure of gross misrepresentation is critical, and responsible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ari F.</p>
<p>The whole plateauing debate is old news. What&#8217;s been demonstrated is a strong suggestion that given silly constraints people on average find their bearings and comply to the extent that student scores on silly assessments are achieved and maintained within about 3 or 4 years time. This doesn&#8217;t necessarily mean anything regarding real teaching or real learning; it doesn&#8217;t take into consideration burnout or stress from waves of failed reforms or insane school administrations; nor does it factor in any differentials between newbies vying for tenure (and perhaps starting out &#8212; 1st year &#8212; with the worst classes possible) and veterans starting families and/or falling into the grips of school cultures, conflicts, extra responsibilities, helping out newbies or other colleagues in a jam.</p>
<p>Now, granted, it&#8217;s not a total waste of time to do these studies, but to go from their results to making the categorical statement that teachers don&#8217;t improve, that their jobs on the whole are of such limited skill and creativity that they all flatline after three years, is a highly provocative and revealing spectacle. (We&#8217;re talking about using human minds to work with and shape other  human minds! Incredible. To compare that to menial labor or tinkering with a product . . . ) And if you believe Gates has any real sense at all regarding education, you have to conclude that it&#8217;s a willful misconstruction.</p>
<p>As far as making suggestions goes, Ravitch has been doing so over and over and over. The suggestions of many commenters at Gotham Schools parallel hers. I won&#8217;t get into it here. But when SO MUCH is being swept under the rug, and SO MANY voices (and suggestions) studiously ignored and steamrolled over, mere suggestions don&#8217;t seem to get very far. (Though, like I said, they&#8217;ve been made, over and over and over.) Timely exposure of gross misrepresentation is critical, and responsible.</p>
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		<title>By: Pogue</title>
		<link>http://gothamschools.org/2010/07/14/garrulous-mr-gates/comment-page-1/#comment-277147</link>
		<dc:creator>Pogue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jul 2010 22:02:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gothamschools.org/?p=42522#comment-277147</guid>
		<description>Ari, you state... 
&quot;Can you tell me in all honesty that all the teachers who got Masters went through rigorous, credible programs? When I taught at a high school in Arizona, most of the teachers going for their Masters were getting online degrees from schools with open admissions policies that have you complete some activities and send them back.&quot;

So, I&#039;ll agree with you, I too am wary of the push for online schooling, whether for teachers or students.  Thus, I consider you a comrade in our distrust and disapproval of the Gates Foundation and their love of online schooling.

&quot;Online Learning Gets High Praise From Bill Gates&quot;, U.S. News and World Report, January 28, 2010.

Got Microsoft stock?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ari, you state&#8230; <br />
&#8220;Can you tell me in all honesty that all the teachers who got Masters went through rigorous, credible programs? When I taught at a high school in Arizona, most of the teachers going for their Masters were getting online degrees from schools with open admissions policies that have you complete some activities and send them back.&#8221;</p>
<p>So, I&#8217;ll agree with you, I too am wary of the push for online schooling, whether for teachers or students.  Thus, I consider you a comrade in our distrust and disapproval of the Gates Foundation and their love of online schooling.</p>
<p>&#8220;Online Learning Gets High Praise From Bill Gates&#8221;, U.S. News and World Report, January 28, 2010.</p>
<p>Got Microsoft stock?</p>
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		<title>By: ASTRAKA</title>
		<link>http://gothamschools.org/2010/07/14/garrulous-mr-gates/comment-page-1/#comment-277145</link>
		<dc:creator>ASTRAKA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jul 2010 21:31:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gothamschools.org/?p=42522#comment-277145</guid>
		<description>Ari_f.   If Gates believes  &quot;that the education of lots of students is horrendous&quot; let him spend his money and effort in reducing class size. He should let educators with experience to reform education or evaluate teachers&#039; performance. He is a very successful, college drop out,  billionaire. That does not make him an expert in education.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ari_f.   If Gates believes  &#8220;that the education of lots of students is horrendous&#8221; let him spend his money and effort in reducing class size. He should let educators with experience to reform education or evaluate teachers&#8217; performance. He is a very successful, college drop out,  billionaire. That does not make him an expert in education.</p>
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		<title>By: Arthur Goldstein</title>
		<link>http://gothamschools.org/2010/07/14/garrulous-mr-gates/comment-page-1/#comment-277132</link>
		<dc:creator>Arthur Goldstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jul 2010 20:23:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gothamschools.org/?p=42522#comment-277132</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m afraid I&#039;ve limited myself to addressing only what Gates said, not what he thought.  

I would not be surprised if studies bore out Gates&#039; statements about test scores.  On the other hand, I wouldn&#039;t be surprised if other studies suggested other things entirely.  I&#039;ve seen studies on both sides of the class size issue, and I&#039;ve seen people argue both sides passionately.  I can tell you 25 years of teaching classes of widely varying sizes informs me that I want my kid in the smallest class possible, and I want your kid in that class too.  Mayor Bloomberg and Chancellor Klein wanted their kids in classes like that, and I don&#039;t blame them at all. 

I write what I see.  Perhaps you can produce a study that says I don&#039;t see these things.  However, until you can, and unless you&#039;re certain there are no contradictory studies,  there&#039;s really no ground for your questioning what I believe.   Maybe you can read Bill Gates&#039; mind but I assure you you cannot read mine.  Don&#039;t worry about what I think you believe.  I have no idea what you believe and wouldn&#039;t presume to tell you.

I&#039;m very interested in the contracts to which you refer.  Could you please provide links?  I looked and was unable to find them. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m afraid I&#8217;ve limited myself to addressing only what Gates said, not what he thought.  </p>
<p>I would not be surprised if studies bore out Gates&#8217; statements about test scores.  On the other hand, I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised if other studies suggested other things entirely.  I&#8217;ve seen studies on both sides of the class size issue, and I&#8217;ve seen people argue both sides passionately.  I can tell you 25 years of teaching classes of widely varying sizes informs me that I want my kid in the smallest class possible, and I want your kid in that class too.  Mayor Bloomberg and Chancellor Klein wanted their kids in classes like that, and I don&#8217;t blame them at all. </p>
<p>I write what I see.  Perhaps you can produce a study that says I don&#8217;t see these things.  However, until you can, and unless you&#8217;re certain there are no contradictory studies,  there&#8217;s really no ground for your questioning what I believe.   Maybe you can read Bill Gates&#8217; mind but I assure you you cannot read mine.  Don&#8217;t worry about what I think you believe.  I have no idea what you believe and wouldn&#8217;t presume to tell you.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m very interested in the contracts to which you refer.  Could you please provide links?  I looked and was unable to find them. </p>
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		<title>By: Ari F.</title>
		<link>http://gothamschools.org/2010/07/14/garrulous-mr-gates/comment-page-1/#comment-277120</link>
		<dc:creator>Ari F.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jul 2010 19:23:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gothamschools.org/?p=42522#comment-277120</guid>
		<description>Arthur, as a teacher, shouldn&#039;t you be giving suggestions of what should be done, rather than complaining about someone trying to do something? Bill Gates is not evil. He doesn&#039;t want to destroy people. Obviously, he thinks teachers are important if he went to AFT to talk.

I also wonder whether you actually believe some of the statements you make or if you are angry so you want to find something. Yes, your administrator can walk into your classroom anytime he wants. There are certainly contracts that do limit whether unannounced visits are allowed to be used in evaluation. Does your contention with his statement mean that when Gates says teachers aren&#039;t usually given meaningful feedback that you disagree? At the schools I&#039;ve worked at and visited, I know plenty of examples of administrators who pop their heads in once or twice in a semester, give the teacher some check marks on a piece of paper as their &quot;evaluation&quot; and that&#039;s it.

What about your anger at his use of charts to show that teaching effectiveness plateaus fairly quickly or that a masters degree isn&#039;t a reliable way to show effectiveness? Can you tell me in all honesty that all the teachers who got Masters went through rigorous, credible programs? When I taught at a high school in Arizona, most of the teachers going for their Masters were getting online degrees from schools with open admissions policies that have you complete some activities and send them back. I am sure that you are a great teacher who cares and works his butt off to improve his instruction. That doesn&#039;t mean all teachers or even most teachers are constantly improving. The data of plateauing isn&#039;t a lie. You can see a study here: http://www.hks.harvard.edu/news-events/news/press-releases/pepg-study-june-2010

Essentially, his point is that the education of lots of students is horrendous. You can&#039;t argue with that. There are lots and lots of terrible teachers who shouldn&#039;t have jobs or at the very least, shouldn&#039;t be paid more than teachers who are doing better than them. Do you think it&#039;s fair to you that you are making as much as a teacher who sits and twiddles his thumbs all day?

Now, I don&#039;t want you to think that I believe teachers are THE problem in schools. There are plenty of other problems. There are many things that teachers are simply not equipped to handle. But Gates isn&#039;t putting $35 billion out there to destroy teachers. You are lucky to teach in a school system with some accountability or at least one that&#039;s working its way toward that. Is it really a problem that Gates is funding districts that move away from seniority-based pay scales? Or research into universal standards? Or innovative teacher training systems?

People are fawning over him not because he has the answer or even because everything he&#039;s doing is productive. People are awed by him because he is setting an example that few are courageous enough to follow. He literally spends all of his time giving away his money and convincing other rich people to do the same. Is that a reason to hate him because he isn&#039;t the world&#039;s foremost expert? No, it&#039;s a reason to offer advice, which can only start when we reach out, rather than act divisive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arthur, as a teacher, shouldn&#8217;t you be giving suggestions of what should be done, rather than complaining about someone trying to do something? Bill Gates is not evil. He doesn&#8217;t want to destroy people. Obviously, he thinks teachers are important if he went to AFT to talk.</p>
<p>I also wonder whether you actually believe some of the statements you make or if you are angry so you want to find something. Yes, your administrator can walk into your classroom anytime he wants. There are certainly contracts that do limit whether unannounced visits are allowed to be used in evaluation. Does your contention with his statement mean that when Gates says teachers aren&#8217;t usually given meaningful feedback that you disagree? At the schools I&#8217;ve worked at and visited, I know plenty of examples of administrators who pop their heads in once or twice in a semester, give the teacher some check marks on a piece of paper as their &#8220;evaluation&#8221; and that&#8217;s it.</p>
<p>What about your anger at his use of charts to show that teaching effectiveness plateaus fairly quickly or that a masters degree isn&#8217;t a reliable way to show effectiveness? Can you tell me in all honesty that all the teachers who got Masters went through rigorous, credible programs? When I taught at a high school in Arizona, most of the teachers going for their Masters were getting online degrees from schools with open admissions policies that have you complete some activities and send them back. I am sure that you are a great teacher who cares and works his butt off to improve his instruction. That doesn&#8217;t mean all teachers or even most teachers are constantly improving. The data of plateauing isn&#8217;t a lie. You can see a study here: http://www.hks.harvard.edu/news-events/news/press-releases/pepg-study-june-2010</p>
<p>Essentially, his point is that the education of lots of students is horrendous. You can&#8217;t argue with that. There are lots and lots of terrible teachers who shouldn&#8217;t have jobs or at the very least, shouldn&#8217;t be paid more than teachers who are doing better than them. Do you think it&#8217;s fair to you that you are making as much as a teacher who sits and twiddles his thumbs all day?</p>
<p>Now, I don&#8217;t want you to think that I believe teachers are THE problem in schools. There are plenty of other problems. There are many things that teachers are simply not equipped to handle. But Gates isn&#8217;t putting $35 billion out there to destroy teachers. You are lucky to teach in a school system with some accountability or at least one that&#8217;s working its way toward that. Is it really a problem that Gates is funding districts that move away from seniority-based pay scales? Or research into universal standards? Or innovative teacher training systems?</p>
<p>People are fawning over him not because he has the answer or even because everything he&#8217;s doing is productive. People are awed by him because he is setting an example that few are courageous enough to follow. He literally spends all of his time giving away his money and convincing other rich people to do the same. Is that a reason to hate him because he isn&#8217;t the world&#8217;s foremost expert? No, it&#8217;s a reason to offer advice, which can only start when we reach out, rather than act divisive.</p>
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