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June 1, 2010

More answers to your teacher layoff questions: when, who, how

by Anna Phillips, at 7:24 pm

A week ago, I posted a Q&A about teacher layoffs and many readers left comments with more questions. Last time the questions were invented (or overheard on the subway). This time they’re from you.

My chapter leader told me layoff notices will go out on June 4. Is that true?
Not necessarily. While the union and the Department of Education discussed that date as a possibility, it depended on principals receiving their budgets by today. That has not happened — when principals logged into their internal budget system this morning they were greeted with an announcement saying their new budgets had been delayed. It didn’t say until when, so layoff notices could come out days or weeks from now.

If I lose my job, will I be placed in another school?
There are two ways of losing your job. If you are excessed, it means your school can no longer afford to keep you on staff, but you are still a public school employee and you remain on the city’s payroll while you look for a new teaching position in the system. If you are laid off, you’ve lost your job in every sense.

Teachers who are excessed will not be placed into vacancies at other schools. They will find new jobs by applying through the open market system, going through an interview process, and being selected by a principal. Under the open market system, no one can be forced to take a certain job or be “bumped” out of her current job.

There’s a potential problem though: the open market system could fail. Principals could refuse to hire from the pool of excessed teachers. Last summer, when the city required most principals to hire all but their science and special education teachers from the Absent Teacher Reserve, many of them dragged out the hiring process until the last minute in hopes the rules would change. Some found ways around the hiring freeze.

If the open market system doesn’t work, city officials could use forced placement to fill vacancies. Excessed teachers would be placed in schools based on their seniority, with the most senior teacher getting the first open spot in his license area. If a teacher’s last job was at an elementary or middle school, he’ll be placed into vacancies in the district he came from.

Another option would be for the city it have its contract negotiation wish come true: the excess teacher pool would be drained by laying off people who’ve been unable to find a job for a year.

How will layoffs affect guidance counselors?
Guidance counselors will be affected the same way teachers will be. City officials will count out how many counselors to lay off based on their projections of how many counselors principals will excess. In some cases, officials could predict that the loss of a school’s only guidance counselor would hurt graduation rates too much, and leave that job intact. In other cases, they could decide guidance counselors are expendable.

I’m a high school math teacher finishing my third year. My file number has been in the system longer than that because I spent a year as a substitute. Can anyone shed some light on my chances of surviving the budget cuts?
Your chance of not being laid off is as good as any other third year math teacher’s. Having an older file number doesn’t increase your seniority in the position you currently hold.

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  • Vote NO

    There will NOT be any layoffs of NYC teachers.

  • Joe Schmo

    What makes you so sure of that? (Just curious) I don’t think the city really wants to go through with firings because Bloomklein will loose a lot of their precious TFA’s.

  • Mike

    Does losing your job “in every sense” mean without recall rights as openings appear?

  • Vote NO

    Joe,

    Your reasoning is partly why I feel that way. Look at how funding for state parks was “miraculously” restored right before the holiday weekend. Look at how principals didn’t get their budgets today, even though the DOE said they would.

    There is some deal in the works. Look for the UFT to make massive monetary concessions from the membership without getting anything in return, or consulting them, in order to save teaching positions.

  • alim

    Any hope for a retirement incentive?

  • Jeff S

    I wrote this about 10 days ago……the UFT threw its teachers under the bus by giving up tenure protections (the new teacher evaluation system will ensure that the incompetent, inept, uncertified lawyer masquerading as an educator will be able to unleash a reign of terror on the schools the likes of which have not been seen) and now compromised on the charter schools issue all in the name of the Race to the Top. I truly believe they have reached a secret deal with Klein that will include a retirement incentive in which case they will probably be able to “settle” for a 2% raise (with many of the senior teachers retiring, the 2% will not represent all that much money) and they will probably throw the ATR’s under the bus and give in on seniority lay offs……the UFT’s committment is to its senior teachers and by getting them a retirement incentive, they won’t feel so bad throwing the rest under the bus. It will also allow the incompetent Mr. Klein the opportunity to claim victory over the union in much the same way Ms. Rhee has been allowed by Randi to steam roll the DC teachers.

  • http://jd2718.wordpress.com Jonathan

    How accurate is this information? Where does it come from?

    People are nervous, and deserve to know if they are reading fact or conjecture, or a mixture of both.

  • Jeff S

    Read the post….I said it is my opinion very clearly…I did not proclaim I have any inside sources but………if the UFT gave up tenure protection and didn’t get anything in return, that would be a sad commentary of how little the union cares about its members…I was just speculating at how massive a deal should have been necessary to throw teachers under the bus the way they did!

  • Pogue

    Isn’t it interesting that with all the confusion about layoffs, teachers can’t even count on their own union for what is going to happen.  As par for the course, teachers will find out after is has been DONE to them.

    Seniority and tenure rights must prevail.

  • Joe Schmo

    I agree with Pouge 100%. There should be a massive UFT presence of reps coming into schools right now to explain what steps might occur if firings do happen. However, I must say I disagree with Jeff S. in regard to the UFT/City throwing ATR’s under the bus. I believe that would actually be the last thing to happen in a firing situation. Of course, Bloomklein has publicly stated that they wish they could fire all the ATR’s/U rated teachers first. This could not easily happen as a huge percentage of these people are veteran, senior teachers. These teachers have more “rights” than the newbies and would be much more hard to fire. (At least in a legal manner) Lastly, the UFT would work extra hard to protect these teachers as they make up the bulk of the UFT leadership. This is just my opinion of course.

  • Jeff S

    Pogue….they’ve already given up much of your tenure protection with this new teacher evaluation system…read it carefully….if you are rated ineffective and/or developing two years in a row, the assumption will be you’re gone, you’re history. What appeal rights will you have….the agreement talks of making it easier to get rid of ineffective teachers…..Mulgrew and the rest of them can spin it any way they want, this is a devastating attack on tenure, pure and simple. The question remains, what else has Mulgrew agreed to give up and what is he getting in return. And you know what, when New York doesn’t get the Race to the Top money, what then? Yes I’ve been speculating and I hope, for the sake of my two sons who are teaching now, that I am wrong. But I don’t understand why so many cannot see the forest through the trees.

  • Jeff S

    Read this directly from the proposal:

    Provides that two consecutive annual ratings of
    “Ineffective” constitutes a “pattern of ineffective
    teaching or performance,” which constitutes very
    significant evidence of incompetence and which
    may form the basis for just cause removal of a
    teacher or principal.

    Establishes an expedited tenured employee
    disciplinary process for teachers and principals
    where the charges are based solely on a “pattern
    of ineffective teaching or performance

    I’ll ask again, if this isn’t a significant loss of tenure, then what is it.

  • Peter

    1. All schools have excessing lists … as your Chapter Leader. Being excessed does NOT mean you will be laid off, currently you are assigned to the ATR pool and must seek employment through Open Market, althought that could change.

    2. Layoff is done centrally, by inverse order of seniority within license area.

    3. Guidance counselors who were NYC teachers who are laid off would revert to their teaching license.

    4. Recall would be by seniority within license.

    5. The Department could set up a recertification program to qualify teachers for Special Education licenses, this has happened in the past … however time is afleeting.

    6. The DOE could restrict schools to hiring per diem subs from the pool of laid off teachers. 7. Retirement Incentive: the legislature passed permissive legislation, the Mayor has to negotiate a retirement incentive with the UFT … it occured in 91, 95 and 96. Details would be subject to the negotiations. 8. Teaching Fellows, Teach for America, UTR programs have no special status, all teachers are treated the same in the excessing/layoff process.

  • SciTchr

    Well, if there is a retirement incentive in the works they better announce it quickly.I think a whole bunch of teachers, myself included, will get on that bus. Absent significant funding restoration, it is probably the only cost-effective way to reduce payroll and keep junior teachers.

  • New Teacher

    people keep talking about layoffs by license area. what license areas are projected to be hardest hit (approximate numbers would be appreciated)?

  • bunzi

    Today, three teachers at my school were told that they will be excessed. Last October, our now retired principal hired 2 teachers from the ATR pool to fill vacancies. Now that our budget was cut, we are losing staff, however these 2 ATRS are part of the excessed trio. How could this be? Is excessing based on seniority in the building or seniority in the system?

  • Peter

    Excessing seniority is systemwide service … I suspect the ATRs were not “hired,” rather “assigned” and paid for out of Central. The Chapter Leader should check the Excessing List, or, the teachers can contact the UFT Boro Office … there are rigid time limits for end of term grievances, if there is any doubt file a grievance.

  • bunzi

    Thanks Peter. We have an IA from the academy and he hasn’t even published the reorganization list yet. He will be doing so tomorrow. The two ATS were not excessed. One of the guys has been working at our school for the past 5 years. I guess if it’s systemwide then these 2 ATRS have more seniority. Awh well….

  • Michael Fiorillo

    Bunzi,

    Excessing is based on date of hire – system, not building-wide seniority – but the principal has discretion in deciding which license areas are to be excessed. This is in contrast with layoffs, which emanate from the central DOE.

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