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NY teachers union strikes back against Newsweek cover story

Does that April 15 edition of New York Teacher look familiar?

Apparently, the state teachers union didn’t take to Newsweek’s take-down of teachers unions all that kindly. The inside story is a two-page spread written by New York State United Teachers president Dick Iannuzzi on why states looking to reform their school systems need to involve teachers unions.

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  • http://perimeterprimate.blogspot.com/ CarolineSF

    Cross-posting my findings as described on the Perimeter Primate blog: Unionized states correlate with higher student achievement. Bring on the “forced unionization” and watch our students do better, Newsweek! From the blog:

    Education historian/commentator Diane Ravitch points out that the states with non-union teachers (who thus have little or no job security) tend to have lower academic achievement than the states with strong teachers’ unions.

    That should put to rest the myth that bad teachers with ironclad job security are the cause of the challenges facing public education.

    As Ravitch adds, the state reported to have the consistently highest academic achievement is Massachusetts — a strong union state. (It’s also widely called “Taxachusetts” by the right — could there be a connection?) Ravitch emphasizes that she’s not necessarily saying that unionization and job security LEAD TO higher academic achievement, but the facts show that unionization and job security clearly don’t work AGAINST higher academic achievement. They are correlated.

    I thought it was worth looking for some data. But not officially being a statistician, I wasn’t really sure of the best measure of state-by-state academic achievement.

    So I decided to look at one measure that interests me. That’s the list of “cut scores” for National Merit semifinalists. National Merit recognition is based on the PSAT scores of 11th-graders. The cut score for recognition varies from state to state. That’s explained this way on Wikipedia:

    “The minimum Selection Index for recognition as a Semifinalist … is set by the NMSC [National Merit Scholarship Corporation] in each state at whatever score yields about the 99th percentile.”

    The organization FairTest has posted a list of the cut scores for the high school graduating class of 2010, which range from 201 (Wyoming) to 221 (Massachusetts, Maryland and New Jersey). California’s is 218.

    The National Right to Work Legal Foundation posts a the list of Right-to-Work states (which don’t allow workplaces to require union membership, meaning unions are toothless) and what the Foundation calls Force Unionism states. I took those lists, added each state’s Class of 2010 National Merit cut scores and averaged.

    The results:

    * Right-to-Work states: average cut score 208.4545
    * Forced Unionism states: average cut score 213.6897

    That result seems to show that unionized teachers correlate with higher academic achievement, and non-union teachers correlate with lower academic achievement.

    If I’m missing confounding factors, I can’t see what they would be. It’s true that not all 11th-graders take the PSAT, and the culture probably varies state by state as to whether taking the PSAT is more widely encouraged or less. But that wouldn’t seem to confound the basic finding.

    By the way, the lowest-cut-score state — Wyoming at 201 — is a Right-to-Work state, and the three that are tied for highest — Massachusetts, Maryland and New Jersey –are strong labor states.

  • Stuart Buck

    For that analysis to be valid at all, you’d have to control for lots of other factors — FRL, for instance.  Just looking at average scores across different states is worthless.  And Ravitch knows full well that her Massachusetts example shows the exact opposite of what she claims — the educational improvements she admires there were won over fierce union opposition.  See http://www.edexcellence.net/flypaper/index.php/2009/05/bob-costrell-jumps-into-the-massachusetts-miracle-debate/  

    Also, this bit is odd: “the states with non-union teachers (who thus have little or no job security).”  Arkansas is a right-to-work state, by the state constitution. Yet teachers have job security through statutory protections, most prominently the Arkansas Fair Dismissal Act. So the assumption that unionized states have very different policies from non-unionized states isn’t true, at least not as broadly as is being claimed.    

  • http://perimeterprimate.blogspot.com/ CarolineSF

    I disagree that the analysis is invalid, Stuart. I didn’t claim causation, just correlation.

    To get into FRL, you then have to go into an elaborate economic analysis of how being a right-to-work state contributes to or results from poverty levels. I do agree that a law like Arkansas’, if that’s accurate (I think you have mentioned that you’re in Arkansas), is a genuine confounding factor. But is that an outlier? So a thorough study would need to determine the true extent to which teachers have job security in each state based on all relevant factors. There are many researchers who are paid to do this kind of study, so it’s not clear to me why it hasn’t been done. As an amateur volunteer mommy, I don’t have the resources or expertise to go deeper than I did. Those who do have the resources and expertise should be looking into this further

    But the fact remains that my findings show that OVERALL, ON AVERAGE, states with right-to-work laws show lower academic achievement based on this particular gauge (which I find a rather revealing one) than do states with legislation that empowers unions.

    You’re splitting hairs over Ravitch’s history of opinions on Massachusetts education policy. That doesn’t refute in the slightest her observation that Massachusetts shows the highest academic achievement in the nation and has strong union laws.

    The only efforts to refute her comment, and my findings, so far, have been based on this kind of wriggling and hair-splitting. To which my retort is the charter forces’ favorite comment: NO EXCUSES. The fact is, the charter/privatization/anti-teacher/anti-public-education folks claim that the ability to fire teachers would improve achievement, and the facts show the opposite.

  • B

    Massachusetts also has fewer poor people, a higher median income, more college-educated adults and more white people than the national averages, all factors that correlate to absolute levels of achievement as measured by NMSQT. All that to say: a simple correlation doesn’t explain anything about a complex reality.

  • Caroline

    But again, it shows that the ability to fire teachers at will does not correlate with higher achievement — so it disproves that notion, promoted by Newsweek and other opponents of public education.

  • Stuart Buck

    “To get into FRL, you then have to go into an elaborate economic analysis of how being a right-to-work state contributes to or results from poverty levels.”

    No, that’s irrelevant.  The point is whether FRL (to take one of many factors) is what’s causing Southern states to do less well than Massachusetts and Jersey.  If FRL is what’s really going on, and especially if Southern states often have effectively similar job protections and other policies that unions favor, then everything you and Ravitch have said on this point is completely meaningless.  All you and Ravitch have managed to show is that rich white kids of Harvard and MIT professors outscore poor black kids in the Delta.  

    “That doesn’t refute in the slightest her observation that Massachusetts shows the highest academic achievement in the nation and has strong union laws.”

    Also completely irrelevant.  What the Massachusetts story really proves is the opposite of what Ravitch and you want to believe: improving academic achievement via standards and exit exams requires defeating political pressure from unions that want to dumb things down.  

  • anathema

    see newseek is right! fire bad teachers. if they do’nt wanna take no pay cut, cut them. look at what they doing in new jersey. chris chris is tryna get rid of all them teachers. bad teachers bad!

  • Tim

    So the anti-union folks need to argue / prove either that

    A. The Forced Union / Right to Work achievement gap exists because of factors like income, family structure, highest level of education attained by parent, rates of ELL and special ed students, etc. 

    or

    B. All things being equal, Forced Union states would score higher if they were Right to Work states

    Yes?

  • Caroline

    1. Stuart, those are the very details that you opponents of public education disdain as “excuse-making” in other contexts. Again, to quote you and your allies: NO EXCUSES!
    2. But if you do want to keep up the hair-splitting: Is the fact that a state is a Right-to-Work state a causation factor in high poverty? Is the fact that academic outcomes are poorer in those states a causation factor in high poverty? This research could go very deep. To what extent does the lack of job security and the weak workers’ rights CONTRIBUTE to those pathologies (high poverty, low student achievement)?

    In any case, none of this squirming, contorting and weaseling changes my basic point. Newsweek and other public education opponents insist that the ability to fire “bad” teachers is the key to improving education. If that were so, states with lower job security for teachers would show higher achievement than states in which teachers have higher job security. But the opposite is true: States with lower job security for teachers show lower student achievement. Sorry, that’s the fact. Newsweek and those other public education opponents are debunked.

  • Stuart Buck

    No educated person says it’s just an “excuse” to control for all the many factors that affect educational outcomes. 

    “In any case, none of this squirming, contorting and weaseling changes my basic point. Newsweek and other public education opponents insist that the ability to fire “bad” teachers is the key to improving education. If that were so, states with lower job security for teachers would show higher achievement than states in which teachers have higher job security.”

    Nonsense.  Even if job security affects academic performance, you have no idea whether that would make states with job security do better on some absolute level than states without.  There can be many other differences between states, and cross-state comparisons are meaningless without controlling for all the many differences between states.  That is simply a fact.

    In any event, a more enlightening question to ask would be this: If the ability to fire bad teachers would improve education, then: 1) Would Massachusetts’ academic performance be even higher if principals there were given more power to dismiss bad teachers; and 2) Would Mississippi’s academic performance be even lower if principals could virtually never fire a teacher for anything short of a felony?  

  • Pingback: Fixing Our Schools: Newsweek Versus New York Teacher – GOOD Education – GOOD « Firesaw

  • Caroline

    Education reform advocates constantly use the “no excuses” snarl to blast public schools. I agree with you that it’s not really valid — but it’s sauce for the gander here. If you’re telling me it’s not valid, you need to say that whenever your colleagues in the the anti-public-education war forces use it too (I think they use it not because they’re uneducated but because they’re dishonest and unethical.)

    Anyway, I’m just dealing with the big picture with this particular piece of research, and in that big picture, low job security for teachers correlates with lower academic performance for students, state by state, overall on average.

  • Stuart Buck

     The “no excuses” line has no parallel to your reasoning here.  What the “no excuses” crowd would say (for example) about Linda Darling-Hammond’s charter school is not that it fails to have the same high test scores as an elite, rich, white private school in the Northeast. That would clearly be a dumb argument, just as it’s dumb to compare unionized Massachusetts to non-unionized Arkansas.  

    What they HAVE been saying is that Darling-Hammond’s charter school didn’t do as well as other California schools that had even more kids in poverty, and even more English language learners.  So she can’t just rely on the “excuse” that her kids are all from a certain demographic — if other schools are having greater success with a demographic that is even less advantaged, then that’s not a good excuse.  

  • Caroline

    You’re right about the discussion of the Stanford-run charter school (which is 35 miles from me). My take on that is that the organizers of this school fell victim to the same reality that trips up other charter operators — it’s very hard to run a school, it’s very hard to improve the achievement of high-poverty, high-need, at-risk students, and if they thought they had some magical skills that would enable them to do what traditional educators struggle to do, they got a dash of cold water.

    It’s really impossible to fairly compare charter schools to each other without knowing to what extent each charter school’s admission process self-selects, depending on the demands of the process (or even pro-actively selects) — and without knowing to what extent each charter school pushes out unsuccessful students. And since that information is not readily available, comparisons are meaningless.

    In San Diego, UC San Diego educators run the Preuss charter school, which is famously on all lists of the nation’s top schools. However, the Preuss school has also been busted for various types of cheating.

  • HM

    how about firing bad journalists who helped create wmd’s…can we trust these people and their goofy transparent attempts to sell a dying breed of media

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