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very big problem

Teacher pension fund lost $9 billion last year while costs rose

In Albany this week, UFT President Michael Mulgrew floated a plan to save the city money by letting teachers retire earlier. But a new report on the health of the city’s teachers pension fund suggests that Mulgrew’s proposal would only compound the fund’s potentially crippling budget crunch.

The fund’s annual report, released last week, shows that it lost 29 percent of its value, more than $9 billion, last school year, even as the portion the city is required to pay reached unprecedented heights.

The mix of rising costs and declining value raises serious questions about how the city will be able to afford to pay the pensions it has promised in the future without major concessions by the teachers union.

The fund, called the Teachers Retirement System (TRS), is a collection of investments paid for with a combination of taxpayer dollars and teacher salaries. Every year a chunk of it is used to pay retired teachers and principals the pensions state law says they are owed.

picture-63Last year’s financial crisis sunk the fund to its lowest level in more than 15 years, effectively erasing all of the gains made in the past decade’s bull market, according to a database of TRS’s financial reports. Over that time span, the fund’s value, adjusted for inflation, has shrunk by more than $11 billion.

This leaves a $15 billion gap between what the fund expects to pay out in the next 30 or so years and what it will have saved by that time, according to the TRS’s preferred accounting method. Another way of calculating these “unfunded liabilities” used in the private sector puts the number even higher, at $27 billion.

“It’s not a crisis. It’s a long-run big problem: The pension system is far more costly than it ought to be,” said Charles Brecher of the Citizens Budget Commission, an independent group that advocates for changes in city and state finances.

Sources of the “big problem”

At the center of the mismatch between what is promised and what was saved is the basic structure of what is called a “defined benefit” pension. A typical defined benefit plan promises a certain annual payout to retirees, usually in the form of a percentage of the retiree’s final annual salary. In New York, these payouts are defined by law and are not adjusted to reflect how much a member contributes over time.

Nobody expects the amount a member contributes to fully fund his promised pension. The idea is that the difference will be made up through a combination of taxpayer dollars and market returns.

The problem is that since 2000 a slew of factors have made this gap between how much teachers put in and how much they take out larger than ever before. One reason is that salaries have gone up 43 percent in the past decade, hoisting up the final amount retirees can expect each year. Current teachers’ pay-ins, based on higher salaries, help a bit. But the effect is dampened by the fact that even as teacher salaries have gone up, the proportion of member contributions used to pay for the plan in each year has gone down. In 1999, teachers’ contributions made up 18 percent of the total. In 2009, they were only 6 percent.

Another gap-widening factor is the fact that, for the past decade, a state law has allowed the highest-paid teachers in the city to opt out of contributing to the pension altogether. The rule has changed with the start of a new pension system for employees entering work today.picture-65

In addition to raising salaries, the city has also granted a series of pension sweeteners in exchange for union concessions. In 2007, teachers with 25 years of service won the right to retire at age 55 with no penalty, a union victory that came in exchange for a touted performance-based pay deal.

The sweeteners reduced the retirement contributions for teachers and principals, putting more of the burden to pay for pensions onto the city. They also allowed per diem salary — money teachers make for taking on extra tasks like running after-school clubs and sports — to be counted in the overall final salary number. And, in 2008, a provision allowed teachers to retire early without being dinged in their pension earnings.

Together, the rising salaries and pension sweeteners have created a perfect storm: increasing costs just as the plan’s performance has plummeted in the down market. Although the TRS has not performed significantly worse than the market according to the new report, the annual rate of return it assumes — 8 percent — is high by most private standards. (To be fair, most public pension plans also use a number around 8 percent. Similar private sector plans assume a rate of around 4 percent.)

Assuming a steady and high rate of return leaves little room for error. Imagine that the fund fails to make 8 percent returns one year and instead breaks even. To recover the lost ground the next year, TRS will have to make last year’s 8 percent and this year’s, a total of 16 percent returns. The recession of the past two years has followed this pattern of compounding losses. As a result, the fund was so far behind last year that even the high market returns from earlier in the decade couldn’t make up for the losses.

picture-64All of this has left taxpayers to make up the burden. In the late 1990s, the amount the city put into the pension fund every year was around $500 million in today’s dollars. By 2009, the sum the city had to contribute ballooned to $2.2 billion. 

This amount is incredibly high, especially compared to the New York State Teachers Retirement System, which serves all teachers outside of New York City. Last year, the state contributed half as much to its teacher retirement system as New York City contributed to the TRS, even though there are twice as many retirees in the rest of the state as there are in the city.

Even the new Tier V pension plan, which increased all new teachers’ required contribution to the plan and doubled the amount of time before they can qualify to draw a pension, has not alleviated all costs. That’s because the Tier V law included a special provision for New York City’s teachers that no other plan received, allowing them to retire with a full pension at age 55 if they’ve taught for 27 years. Teachers in the rest of the state must wait until age 57 to retire with a full pension.

Though the city is not benefiting as much from Tier V as the rest of the state, Tier V reforms are still expected to save the city $19.1 million next year, according to Division of Budget estimates.

But E.J. McMahon, of the conservative-leaning Manhattan Institute, warns that Tier V will do little to close the TRS’s budget gap. Instead of making retirement benefits fundamentally sustainable, Tier V actually turns back the clock to before the recent decade of pension sweeteners, he argues. Tier V “does not deserve the label reform,” McMahon said.

Brecher doesn’t even think Tier V merits its name. “They call it that, but it’s not really a tier in the sense that it’s a big change in the benefit structure,” he said.

Grim prospects

Going forward, the city cannot alter any current TRS member’s benefits due to a state law that prohibits the public pensions from being “diminished [or] impaired.” Only a handful of states have this provision, which guarantees that pension reforms affect only future teachers.

One possible alternative for the future is a cash balance plan, which California and Nebraska have adopted for their employees. Cash balance plans blend features of the TRS model (the defined benefit plan) with features of private sector pensions, known as defined contribution plans, to spread out risk more evenly among employees and employers. Although cash balance plans were surrounded by controversy when they were first introduced, in recent years they have been gaining popularity in academic and public policy circles.

Another option is a straightforward defined contribution plan, like the 401k plans that are offered to private sector workers and even some CUNY and SUNY faculty. Such plans are subject to market fluctuations and are dependent on the quality of investment advisors, but some consider them less likely to see costs spiral out of control.

“Anything that has a defined benefit at the end of it … is complicated, more costly and subject to manipulation by the union through a legislature that doesn’t understand it,” McMahon said.

Any of these alternative pension plans could make their way into city teachers’ contract one day, but for now the UFT is publicly committed to at most tweaking the current system, as Mulgrew indicated before legislators yesterday.

“We believe in a defined-benefit plan,” said Dick Riley, a UFT spokesman, adding that he would not discuss contract negotiations with the media.

Whatever happens, making TRS sustainable is likely to require city teachers to give up some of the perks of their profession.

“It’s up to the union to decide whether they’re going to make some concessions on these benefits or take layoffs and both deprive kids of educational services or members of their jobs,” said Brecher of the Citizen’s Budget Commission. “That’s the trade-off.”

Kim Gittleson is a research assistant employed by Ken Hirsh, a GothamSchools funder and contributor.

  • http://edintheapple peter

    Let me take issue with the author, first, it is the state constitution that says “no pension may be diminished or impaired,” not a state law. The Citizen’s Budget Commission, seemingly his major source, has been a sharp critic of public employee pensions for decades. Variations in the stock market and high teacher turnover rates also impact the pension system. Tne market has good years and bad years, good decades and bad decades, however, over the many decades market returns have been remarkably steady.

    The analysis fails to take into account the high teacher turnover rate, half of all teacher leave within five years and never receive pensions, about 60% of teachers have five years or less of service time.

    The number of teachers retiring will decrease each year and the decreases will escalate. The City contribution varies from year to year. Once again, dependent on the market and the size of the teaching force.

    The term “retirement incentive” is not defined, in 91, 95 nd 96 the City offered incentives to avert layoffs, the 91 incentive was particularly rich. Thee City, the union, and the legislature would have to balance the needs of the City and the school system now, with the impact on the pension system decades hence.

    In 1975 when Al Shanker bailed out the City and prevented default no one thought the risk to the pension system was not warrented.

    TRS has a long history is cinservative management.

    Using fears of pension default to wrangle concessions in negotiations is simply a political ploy.

  • http://nyceducator.com NYC Educator

    I didn’t realize opinion pieces appeared on the front page. I look forward to seeing an opposing point of view here as well.

  • August

    Clean out the garage, Granny is moving out of the nursing home…

  • Michael Fiorillo

    My sense, not particularly well-informed, has been that TRS is conservatively and well-managed. And it’s without question that these news reports give off a vibe of having been politically placed.

    Nevertheless,

    - Union pension funds often seek returns on investments that harm working and middle class
    people. Public employee pension funds have been large investors in private equity firms that
    have stripped away wealth and outsourced otherwise viable companies. Just recently, CALPERS,the giant California public employee pension fund lost a $500,000,000. investment in Stuyvesant Town, an unconscionable use of union members money for a deal whose financial return was based entirely on displacing long-term tenants.

    That leads me to my second point, which is

    - In general, the investment banks treat the pension funds like rubes, While I can’t comment
    on TRS specifically, pension funds have lost many billions on ludicrous deals, deals that the sponsoring investment banks then bet against. The more free-thinking financial blogs, such as Naked Capitalism, Zero Hedge, Financial Armageddon and others constantly bring up the parasite/host, grifter/mark relationship between the investment banks and pension funds.

    Quite a scenario: the pensions we’ve been guaranteed, and have foregone upfront wages to receive, are under increasing political attack, while the funds themselves are relying on investments that are an economic and social disaster.

  • http://www.sinksalive.blogspot.com KitchenSink

    Now THAT is a corporate takeover, MF!

  • John Doe

    Here’s the opposing point of view: “Gimme more money! I don’t care if it’s affordable, and I don’t care who has to pay for it. Just gimme more money!”

  • QueensParent

    Now when you hear teachers state that their salaries are “flat,” which is not true in any way, of course they never mention these generous GUARANTEED pension benefits they never seem to calculate as part of their salaries. Charter school teachers don’t get these pension benefits either. I just read an oped in the Times where a California teacher claimed he was entitled to these pensions because he paid out of his pocket for them. I’ve hear NY teachers say the same thing. Of course they never mention that what they pay out of their pocket is about one-tenth of what it costs to provide these pensions, the other 90% is coming from taxpayers. I’ve said it many times before, schools are run for adults, not for children.

  • Larry Littlefield

    “The mix of rising costs and declining value raises serious questions about how the city will be able to afford to pay the pensions it has promised in the future without major concessions by the teachers union.”

    There are no such questions. The pensions will be paid, as guaranteed by the state constitution. And the schools will be gutted, as they were in the 1970s, to pay for them. That was the plan all along, apparently. The sole long run result of the Campaign for Fiscal Equity Lawsuit will be to increase school spending in the rest of the state, where it was already sky-high, and to allow teacher to retire at 55 instead of 62, a deal that has not begun to be paid for. The schools would have taken a hit as a result of the recesion, but this is permanent. Already new teachers have had their take home pay cut by 5 percent — and they are forced to pay union dues as part of a deal between the unions and the politicians they control. Now the UFT wants existing teachers to retire even earlier than 55. Game over.

  • Larry Littlefield

    And by the way, why don’t private sector workers have pensions anymore? Because unlike the rich and unionized public employees, they don’t get paid up front whether the customer likes it or not. The rich and unionized public employees wouldn’t choose to patronize a business providing a higher-priced good service because its employees are paid for one year of leisure in retirement for every year worked. They’ll go elsewhere. They won’t let you have what they are forcing you to pay for.

  • Larry Littlefield

    If anyone wants to educate themselves on the long-term history of this issue based on Census Bureau data, they can read this post.

    http://www.r8ny.com/blog/larry_littlefield/stock_prices_and_public_employee_pensions_a_history.html

    In every economic upturn, pensions are enhanced for those cashing in and moving to Florida and in every downturn pay and benefits are cut for new hires. Then everyone claims they are underpaid, and the quality of workers who want the job goes down despite high labor costs.
    Also, virtually everywhere else the U.S. public employees contribute far more to their pensions than they do in NYC. There, inadequate funding by taxpayers is as much or more to blame as retroactive pension enhancements. Not so here. In most places, the pension income of state and local government workers is taxed just like other workers — $50,000 is taxes as $50,000. Not so here — public employee pension income is exempt from state and local income taxes.

  • QueensParent

    The report posted above could not be more damning to the people who argure that teachers are not paid well; of course, some of what they are paid comes after they retire. And it also speaks directly to those teachers who swear they pay every penny of their pensions. The report posted above shows that last year teachers contributed $143 million out of their paychecks to fund the pension system, while New York City taxpayers contributed an additional $2.3 BILLION to fund their pensions. So for every dollar teachers contributed, taxpayers put in five. Oh yeah, we don’t pay teachers what they are worth….

  • Larry Littlefield

    Unfortunately, few public servants who work are paid what they are worth while working, and that leads to an attitude. Those not working are paid richly. New York’s high debts add to its unfunded pensions. As the city goes broke the schools will be gutted and taxes will soar — that irrevocable decision has already been made, and from my point of view this post is years too late. What’s next to pay for pensions — new hires at $25,000 like the police? Eliminate pre-K? Eliminate high school? It may be as much as 18 months before the real situation is faced up to. They’ll put it off as long as they can, to separate it from the 25/55 pension deal as much as they can, and claim the consequences are due to “circumstances beyond our control.” And this is just one aspect of Generation Greed. http://www.r8ny.com/blog/larry_littlefield/generational_equity_and_the_legacy_of_today_s_politicians.html

  • http://www.sinksalive.blogspot.com KitchenSink

    QP, I think you mean 15.

    I’m not against pensions, and good ones at that, prima facie but let’s get real. The public knows very little about the actual costs.

  • http://edintheapple peter

    The recently negotiated 25/55 pension plan is fully funded by teacher contributions, it was vetted by actuaries approved by the City.

    In the halycon years, when the market was flying city pensions costs were extremely low, with the market in turmoil costs escalate, the costs even out over decades.

    The number of teachers approaching retirement by age/years has declined and will continue to decline sharply.

    The sharp increases in teacher salary over the last few years has greatly increased the pool of applicants, more than 10 applicants per position. In the eighties and nineties the city had to decrease requirements simply to fill classrooms, and many classrooms remained unfilled.

    The New Jersey pension system used surplus dollars to fill budget gaps and the California system made highly questionable investments, the transparent city system has always made conservative investments. Thr abyss is not upon us.

  • Larry Littlefield

    “The recently negotiated 25/55 pension plan is fully funded by teacher contributions.” Which teachers do you mean? Teachers are required to contribute more to their pensions on a going forward basis — five percent vs. 28 percent (and going up) for taxpayers. Those who qualified immediately walked out the door early without contributing an extra dime. Those with a few years left contribute just a few years. New teachers will be forced to pay more their whole careers like it or not, before retiring at 57 rather than 55. “It was vetted by actuaries approved by the City.” What do you mean The City? Do you mean the people who pay taxes and might foolishly expect public services in return? It was vetted by actuaries hired to get the right result by a union and politicians who had cut a political deal. I didn’t approve of the deal, and I know the 8 percent assumed return for the pension funds is a fraud.

  • http://edintheapple peter

    Larry: Unions negotiate with management who are chosen by elected officials, it’s called democracy, the last time I checked the First Amendment still gave citizens the right to assemble and petitition their representatives, if you don’t like management decisions work to elect others who agree with yor views.

    Higher salaries and pension benefits have created a substancial pool of job applicants and we are hiring the “best and the brightest,” which will be a “win-win” for students, schools, employers and the nation.

  • Larry Littlefield

    Higher salaries yes, pensions no. Those were retroactively enhanced, and thus had no effect on future job applicants other than insuring the city won’t be able to hire them, and will do so at lower pay when it does. Why were NYC teachers underpaid a decade ago? The cost of the 25/55 pension plan put in during the late 1960s.

    There was no public discussion of that or any of the other pension deals. It was done under the table. The City Council did not get to vote on it. The State Senate Republicans voted in favor as part of a deal for the union to support one its candidates in a special election upstate. You can look it up.

  • QueensParent

    Peter 25/55 is not fully funded by employee contributions. Employee contributions are fixed. The fact is the City is required to contribute to employee pension accounts at an earnings rate of 8.25% regardless of whether the actual underlying investments earn that much, or lose their entire value. This is how we’ve gotten to the current state of the City putting in 15 dollars for every employee dollar, to make up for the staggering investment losses. “Employee paid pensions” are the PR that the union puts out there. And no, the staggering costs of this program IS NOT DISCLOSED TO THE PUBLIC BY ANYONE. If anything, the UFT and NYSUT as a public service ought to purchase air time to inform taxpayers of this instead of wasting money on those mindless cartoony “arent’ we just great” commercials.

  • Michael Fiorillo

    It’s amazing, but sadly predictable, that private sector workers, who have had their defined-benefit pension plans frozen or eliminated, and their 401Ks looted, are now being incited to call for the destruction of public-sector pensions.

    This is all of a piece with the “race to the bottom” qualities of late-stage, US-style capitalism, dominated as it is by a parasitic financial sector that extracts but does not produce wealth.

    In effect, this is an effort to repeal the 20th century, when systems and institutions were put in place to ameliorate the worst excesses of capitalism. They were were put in place, by the way, to save the system from itself, since it is inherently unstable, as the past few years should have demonstrated to all but the most deluded observers.

    Regarding all the self-proclaimed “realists” who are proud to call for leaving retired teachers, firemen and police officers in a ditch, I’d point you to a famous quote from Keynes: “Practical men, who believe themselves quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.”

  • Touch Love

    Quoting …”Going forward, the city cannot alter any current TRS member’s benefits due to a state law that prohibits the public pensions from being “diminished [or] impaired.” Only a handful of states have this provision, which guarantees that pension reforms affect only future teachers.”

    State laws are written and state laws (or the State Constitution, if necessary) can be changed. This is one definitely in need of change. What is without doubt needed are pension formula reductions for BOTH new employees and for FUTURE years of service for CURRENT (yes CURRENT) employees.

    Without that, we are financially doomed !

  • Michael Fiorillo

    Touch Love,

    Why you and your cohort so intent on casting teachers and other public employees as the villains here? Did teachers cause the current Depression? Then again, ed deformers are always blaming teachers for the Decline and Fall of Western Civilization, so maybe we did cause

    Where is your outrage at the trillions of public dollars that have been looted and distributed to prop up the investment banks? Where is your outrage at the private equity and hedge funds that have enriched themselves unimaginably at the expense of the nation’s productive economy? Where is the outrage over the income polarization that is driving much of this crisis? Why should working and middle class people have to pay for the financial debauchery of the Overclass?

    Their defined-benefit pensions eliminated and their 401Ks looted, workers in the private sector are already in effect being told to eat dog food during their retirement years. Will throwing teachers, firemen, cops and other public workers into a ditch restore what has been taken from you?

    Yeah, standing up and braying in support of the rich and powerful, that’s courageous of you all.

  • Touch Love

    Quoting Michael Fiorillo …”Their defined-benefit pensions eliminated and their 401Ks looted, workers in the private sector are already in effect being told to eat dog food during their retirement years. Will throwing teachers, firemen, cops and other public workers into a ditch restore what has been taken from you?”

    It WILL certainly improve our lot….. it’s a zero-sum game (as a teacher, you should understand this).

    You see, while what the Wall Street gurus have done is inexcusable, 1000 corporate pigs each stealing $1, $2, $, or even $10 Million will not bankrupt this country, but the 30+ Million Civil Servants in this country, EACH taking (via unsustainable and overly generous pensions and free or heavily subsidized retiree healthcare) $1 Million that they did not fund, WILL in fact bankrupt this country.

    In case you need a math lesson:

    1000 x $10 Million = $10 Billion

    30 Million x $1 Million = 30 Trillion

  • Michael Fiorillo

    Touch Love,

    Garbage in, garbage out:

    – Your reference to this being a “zero-sum game” reveals your ideology, not your ability to
    persuade. This is not a closed system we’re talking about, with nothing but the false choices
    you’ve given us. What’s so unvarying about the numbers you present? Let’s address the
    financial crisis facing state and local governments – which is a real thing – with a financial
    transactions tax, steeper personal income and capital gains taxes on profits earned
    solely from speculation, closing tax loopholes and ending corporate welfare.

    – Your arbitrarily positing “1,000 corporate pigs each stealing $1,$2, $ or even $10 Million,”
    misses the point. Trillions have been lost and looted, not because of a few thousand
    greedheads – although there are many, many, many more than that – but because the
    entire economy has become increasingly based on a financial model that has stripped
    away and outsourced much of the country’s wealth and productive capacity, all for the
    enrichment beyond imagining of an ever-smaller slice of the population.

    Unlike the 1930′s the people who caused this crisis have emerged stronger than ever, and are earning mega-profits by having the US Treasury and Federal Reserve take their toxic securities as collateral for 0 % interest loans. That, along with an ever-increasing Pentagon budget, is what’s threatening the finances of the republic.

    How are teachers, firemen and police officers responsible for that?

  • Touch Love

    All true …….

    but (vs what the typical Private Sector workers receives) also true are your excessive and unsustainable pensions & benefits (w/o HUGH tax increases that will only minimally impact those on the receiving end of these excessive pensions & benefits).

  • Michael Fiorillo

    Touch Love,

    But tax increases are EXACTLY what I’m proposing, increased taxes on the people and institutions that have caused this crisis: financial transaction taxes, increases in income taxes and capital gains on short-term financial “investments,” etc. That was my point.

    If, as Ronald Reagan said, there’s “magic” in the marketplace, then Warren Buffett is the “oracle” who divines its directions and purposes. Here’s what he told the New York Times (11/26/06): “There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making it, and we’re winning.” This is a quote that is sure to go into the history books, along with Jay Gould’s Robber Baron-era chestnut, “I can hire one half of the working class to kill the other half.”

    Is it too much to ask for a truce, and some reparations? Apparently so.

  • Touch Love

    Finally, we find some common ground !

    I’d love to see a 75% (marginal) FIT rate on income in excess of $5 Million (maybe even $2-$3 Million). And, taxing the $ Billions that hedge fund managers make at the 15% capital gains rate by classifying all their earnings as “carried interest” (instead of ordinary income), is borderline criminal.

    Of course Corporate America in general hardly pays any tax once all the gimmicks, exclusions, and deductions are factored in. But we do need to be “smart” when increasing Corporate taxes … Private Industry IS the engine of this country, like it or not.

  • Michael Fiorillo

    Touch Love,

    So far, so good.

    Now how about not blaming teacher’s pensions for the impending financial collapse of the Republic, and instead getting our money back from the real miscreants?

  • Touch Love

    As for that, I’ll leave you with one question, but just for the sake of the argument, assume what I’m saying is true… do you think this is “fair” (to Private Sector taxpayers) ?

    The present value at retirement of the employer (i.e., Taxpayer) paid-for share of the typical Civil Servant’s retirement package (pension & retiree healthcare) is 2-4 time greater in value than the employer paid-for share of the typical Private Sector worker retiring at the SAME age, making the SAME pay, and having worked the SAME number of years.

    Its not really difficult to see how this disparity arises ………. Public pension have post-retirement COLAs (Private do not), Public pensions can be collected at a much younger age, WITHOUT the actuarial reduction that is applied in similar situations for Private sector workers, free or heavily subsidized retiree healthcare is commonplace in the Public sector, but almost non-existant in the Private Sector. All of this is VERY expensive

    Before you answer …. let me add, that a recent US gov’t Bureau of labor Statistics report shows that Public Sector “pay” alone exceeds that of comparable private sector jobs (except for a few very highly professional occupations, such as doctors), so the argument that higher pensions and benefits are needed to offset lower pay is a false argument.

    Another argument I hear often is the “negotiated” contract argument. Now you are a smart guy … we BOTH know how the system of “negotiations” has been corrupted by your unions’ money and block voting for those who support your position & goals. Rarely is anyone at the negotiating table looking out for the TAXPAYERS’ interests … everyone seems to only be looking out for themselves (which in the case of politicians usually means giving the employees what they want)

  • Michael Fiorillo

    Touch Love,

    The point is that the Overclass, having de-industrialized, outsourced and extracted the country’s wealth through “rent” (interest, fees, royalties, actual rents, use of eminent domain and public resources for private interests), and all but eliminated a floor for private-sector employment and benefits, is now looking to do the same with the remaining supports: the public sector. And they’re doing it by inciting “taxpayers” (which presumably excludes public sector workers) to be pitted against each other.

    And you seem to be OK with that, and doing your part.

  • Touch Love

    Its NOT that I want to drag you down with us, but my property taxes very much reflect the enormous sums needed to support your high level of pensions & benefits. And, I’m very sure the (GASB 45 directed) pre-funding of OPEB (e.g., Retiree Healthcare) benefits will only exacerbate the problem.

    I am not particularly hurting, but I suspect we’re heading for a Civil War between the Civil Servants and Private Sector Taxpayers.

    There is no easy solution that’s fair to everyone …….

  • Michael M.

    MF and TL,

    Please consider that the predominant share of federal revenue that comes from individual *income* taxes vs. corporate *profit* taxes has reversed since WWII.

    Note also that the top marginal personal income tax rate from WWII to JFK was roughly (are you sitting down?)…. 85%. And FDR had a war profits tax that would shame current discussions of corporate bonus taxes.

    Point being (and not touching state, local, or property taxes) that this nation’s sense of shared investment, shared sacrifice, and common good has undergone a sea change.

    As recently as LBJ, the notion of a Great Society was widely shared. Now it’s every pig at the trough for himself.

    The points of evidence of the victory (cough) are clear: the top 1% are richer than ever, and the war on the middle class is effectively over, except for that the casualties are still being tallied — same as lingering effects of a nuke.

    Question: How many of our parents’ generation would have even gone INTO teaching or public service were it NOT for the pensions? That was ALWAYS the deal: Low pay now for security later. (Note further the gender barriers in the private sector back in the day that led to disproportional number of women in said teaching jobs.)

    Cheers. (Love the math lesson, btw.)

  • Michael M.

    (… Love MF’s response even more.)

  • Metaphysical

    “PETER” says:

    “Unions negotiate with management who are chosen by elected officials, it’s called democracy….Higher salaries and pension benefits have created a substancial pool of job applicants and we are hiring the “best and the brightest,” which will be a “win-win” for students, schools, employers and the nation.”

    Totally and utterly FALSE. Unions too often outright nominate or at minimum heavily back & subsidize friendly candidates. These are not arms’ length transactions, but are instead too often incestuous deals where those looking out for taxpayers are really either in the unions’ pocket, so to speak, or themselves the beneficiaries of the largess and thus have an affirmative disincentive to say “no”. Recall that a full 74% of NY’ers wanted a tax cap last year, but it was the unions who trashed it via direct threats against legislators. I don’t view public unions as “real” unions since they have no competition. Here in the real workd if a union gets too grabby it kills the host and learns a lesson. GM sound familiar, anybody? With no competition for police/fire/teachers and union control of legislators we have a perfect storm for waste, bloat and crushing taxes.

    As it stands, gov’t now pays far better than all but Wall St big shots. Virtually all NYS troopers earn over 100K–often well more than that. Is this really what we want? DO we want gov’t to command the biggest & best pay? Is that best for us as a nation? How will we ever compete with the rest of the world doing this? Public pay should reflect both the private sector AND taxpayers ability to pay. Employed NYers are fleeing as taxes get even more into the stratosphere.

    We’re on a collision course with disaster or bankruptcy. Or both. We need to repeal the Triborough amendment, curtail public unions and restore sanity to state in desperate need of such.

    Enough is enough.

  • http://edintheapple peter

    Metaphysical:

    “Unions too often outright nominate or at minimum heavily back & subsidize friendly candidates.” I plead guilty … I speak my elected officials on a regular basis, I advocate for positions that I believe are good for workers and good for the citizenry. I seem to remember that the First Amendment guarantees to all citizens the right to petition elected officals and the right to free speech.

    I would hope that candidates take into account the views of their constituents.

    While the citizenry approved of a cap on property taxes they also did not want to see any reduction in services, 99% of school budgets are routinely approved.

    Taking advantage of the rpinciples established by our founding fathers is not a sin, it’s called democracy.

    Union officers are elected by their members, they may not spend dues money on political action (only voluntary contributions). They reflect the views of their electorate.

    Hopefully we will continue to advocate for positions in which we believe, and, in the glare of the public spotlight reach decisions.

    Poorly paid public employees will attract poorly qualified employees, you get what you pay for …

  • Michael Fiorillo

    Michael M,

    Thanks for pointing out the decline in tax rates since the “golden age” of Post WWII capitalism. I was writing with the assumption that it was implicit, but it needed to be stated directly.

  • http://www.sinksalive.blogspot.com KitchenSink

    Union officers may not spend dues money on political action?

    Is that really true?

    What about NYSUT’s incredible lobby with the state legislature? You’ve got to be kidding.

  • Michael Fiorillo

    KS,

    Educate yourself: the US Supreme Court has ruled that unions may not use member dues money for political action.

    That money is provided by Political Action Committees that union members tithe themselves to fund.

  • http://www.sinksalive.blogspot.com KitchenSink

    So in the case of the UFT, teachers pay an additional PAC tithe on top of dues? When I was teaching, did I have this money automatically extracted from my gross pay, just like the dues?

  • Michael Fiorillo

    KS,

    Tithing yourself means that you freely choose to donate the money.

    The money is not deducted from paychecks unless the member fills out and signs a special card. Members can choose to fund the union’s political activities as much or as little as they want, or not at all.

    You can rest easy: you never spent a penny to defend your political interests or those of your colleagues (something you seem to think is a bad thing, and peculiar to unions).

  • http://www.sinksalive.blogspot.com KitchenSink

    I’ve spent my own time and money defending my political interests, thanks. But I don’t think I ever trusted the UFT to take care of that for me.

  • Metaphysical

    Let’s see here…. “Peter’s” comments in quotes followed by my responses:

    “I would hope that candidates take into account the views of their constituents.”

    I don’t view public unions as true constituents in the least. I view them along the lines of PACs or special interests. Too bad the only unions doing well are public ones, who lack any semblance of competition.

    “While the citizenry approved of a cap on property taxes they also did not want to see any reduction in services, 99% of school budgets are routinely approved.”

    Again, not true. You erroneously imply that cuts in spending must be accompanied by cuts in services. Why not cut way over the top pay & pensions? Every state trooper pretty much earns 100K+. Outrageous. As for schools, we’re sick of seeing kids used as bargaining chips. AP classes, sports & music, etc are what, 1% of the budget? Yet that’s what the unions use as threats. We’re on to that now. The only reason budgets pass is the unions’ block vote and up to now voter apathy. The unions killed the cap, plain & simple.

    “Taking advantage of the rpinciples established by our founding fathers is not a sin, it’s called democracy.”

    Public unions are far from a democracy. More like a reverse meritocracy. Your position might work if there were true taxpayer advocates on the other side. I doubt the founding fathers ever would have wanted gov’t to get so strong or have the gov’t be where the best jobs are.

    “Union officers are elected by their members, they may not spend dues money on political action (only voluntary contributions). They reflect the views of their electorate.”

    No, they reflect special interests at direct odds with taxpayers. If current trends continue, those states with the biggest unions will go under. NY, CA, ILL, and NJ, etc are in deep, deep trouble. I almost hope they collapse as such might be the only way to see sanity restored & taxes brought to reality.

    “Hopefully we will continue to advocate for positions in which we believe, and, in the glare of the public spotlight reach decisions.”

    On this I agree, but I doubt progress will ever occur. The unions are too entrenched and will, like a virulent parasite, eventually kill the host, i.e. we taxpayers. Their demands & entitlements are just too great. No insults intended, just my view of reality.

    “Poorly paid public employees will attract poorly qualified employees, you get what you pay for …”

    While I agree that we need to pay fairly to attract/retain good people, if what we’re paying is getting us the “most qualified” we are in deep trouble. In my view the pendulum has swung too far and the unions make it too difficult to fire the bad & sub performing.

    I am NOT anti union, as they have indeed protected workers from oppressive mgmnt. But– public unions are a different animal and are protecting their members from the reality facing those paying their exorbitant salaries & pensions. We’re going down the tubes while they retire at 50 with full pay…… Not fair. Ever wonder why people are fleeing NY? Count me out of here some day!

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