GothamSchools — daily independent reporting on NYC public schools

1. 

   Jeff S

   February 3rd, 2010 7:39 am

   The Post article is scary. Joel, the incompetent, inept, uncertified, arrogant lawyer masquerading as an educator, thinks he should be judge, jury and executioner (see Rhee, D) for teachers. Everybody is entitled to due process; before the unions teachers were fired for v arious reasons that had nothing to do with their competence in schools. There are procedures that have to be followed. Joel, you lost the case. Now if you are so sure this guy doesn’t belong in the classroom, how come you couldn’t prove it. Okay, if you are so sure the system let you down and you want at ytour perogative and your perogative only to keep the guy out of the classroom, then he has to be paid. I don’t think any fair minded person could argue otherwise. And the procedures are not impossible to fire a teacher. You just have to have competent people preparing the case.

   Just another indication why this lawyer has no business occupying a position that only an educator should occupy. The biggest blunder madfe in the Mayoral control law and in its renewal is not requiring the Chancellor to have the proper certification and now allow waivers. Until Klein goes, the children of this city will continue to be cheated of the education they so richly deserve.

2. 

   QueensParent

   February 3rd, 2010 8:34 am

   Jeff S, I dare say that if you put as much energy into teaching as into hating and personal attacks, kids might actually benefit. Of course when there is always someone else to blame it makes one’s job easier. Klein like no one is perfect but he gets that education needs accountability and competition to be successful. In the absence of accountability and competition, what you get in the school system is tremendous jobs program for adults where children take a back seat to what adults require (to wit, this is what the ATR pools, teacher tenure and seniority rules are all about, adults needs not children’s). The more our politicians push accountability and results for schools, the better off we will all be.

3. 

   Michael M.

   February 3rd, 2010 9:04 am

   QP would have us all believe that Plato, Socrates, Copernicus, Newton, Einstein, Archimedes, Ben Franklin, and that guy from Stand and Deliver, et al, were only successful because they had competition, and law degrees.

   When does “accountability” hit the top dog at Tweed? Hasn’t he had enough time to make a REAL difference yet?

   Reorganize. Stigmatize. Privatize.
   Spin, rinse, repeat.

   Sheesh.

4. 

   QueensParent

   February 3rd, 2010 9:11 am

   MM did I see you on here yesterday defending the progress report score (”A”) of the school that has the alleged fight club teachers? Yet at other times you have written profusely about how wrong all of them are? Trying to have it both ways no?

5. 

   Michael M.

   February 3rd, 2010 2:02 pm

   You betcha.
   But so are you; hatin’ on everyone but never holding Klein accountable.
   I say mine is the lesser of two weevils.
   Fact remains, YOUR Dear Leader gave that school an “A” — not me.

6. 

   Bronx Teacher

   February 3rd, 2010 2:04 pm

   So it is OK for Joel to beg and he must get his way, but when parents beg to be heard and taken seriously he just ignores them.

   Read my blog! Copy and paste.

   southbronxschool.blogspot.com

7. 

   John Hancock

   February 3rd, 2010 2:45 pm

   QP,

   I love that you think you are part of the ” the better off we will all be.” that you speak of. I do rather enjoy your strange perceptions.

8. 

   Bronx Teacher

   February 3rd, 2010 6:16 pm

   Klein wishes to discipline teachers in his own special way.

   Cut and paste:

   southbronxschool.blogspot.com/2010/02/joel-klein-teachers-must-be-disciplined.html

9. 

   Jeff S

   February 3rd, 2010 7:02 pm

   Queens pARENT…..Everubpdu os emtot;ed tp their opinion and quite frankly everybody has a vested intertest including Mr. Klein. And everybody in education will always say it is for the children. I could go through all the many things that have shown ver the last 8 years that my description of Mr. KIlein is correct. Why are there so many ATR’s? It was his bird brained decision to change the budgeting procdess from each teacher counts as 1 unit to each teacher is charged to a school based on actual salary. How can rational person argue that is not one of the major stumbling blocks to the many teachers excessed from the large high schools not being able to find jobs? Personally, I think it is about 85% of the problem. How can anybody argue about his first choice of Deputy Chanellor of Instruction. Was her name Ms. Lam who tried to enforce on the city kids those inane fuzzy reading and math programs. Have you forgotten her? And how can you say Klein is not arrogant? The meeting on the closing high schools is ample proof of that. Can you argue he doesn’t lack the proper certification for a school districvt superintendent (which is basically what he is) so characterizing him as uncertified is not a personal attack, it is the truth.

   As far as this business with the rubber rooms. Incompetent teachers should not be in the classroom. I spent over twenty years as an Assistant Principal of Mathematics in a large high school (one of the ones being closed; but at the rate wer’re going, the novelty will be large schools that are staying open). I went through the process of removing incompetent teachers. And yes it is not easy; but it shouldn’t be. After all, it has to be clear that somebody is incompetent if you want to take their source of income. And yes the union reps called me all sorts of names but I smiled, showed my documentation and I won and yes the children won. So please don’t lecture me about how it’s for the children and about accountability. I know all about tht. If Mr. Klein and his staff were som competent or the case was so iron tight, then let him do what has to be done. The fact the teacher was cleared demonstrates there was something wrong with the DOE case.

   Can anybody really argue the grading of schools has been a farce (one of the high points Klein makes as he goes around the world pretending to be an expert on education). No real standards. Changing standards evgery year etc. And my point has always been, and I abeg you to refute it, is how should a kid feel when he faces his peer groups and is attending a school graded D. You think he is not the subject of ridicule? And how does that help a kid in a so called “failing” high schools who is an honors student (and there are some attending these schools) when the kid sends out his college applications? Does the fact his school is rated D help him? If Klein wants to rate schools internally, based on clear standarsds, that is his perogative. But he shouldn’t be making these socres public.

   As far as the closing of the large high schools, I have made my points in other postings. The large schools allow students to take a much larger variety of courses and allows teachers to be much better supervised by subject area specialists. Under the Klein Doctrine, we now have a Principal, who if we are lucky coming out of the Leadership Academy, who may have 3 years of experience as a teacher, if that, of English. Can such a Principal properly supervise a math lesson and make suggestions to improve that teacher’s ability to teach the subject matter. Remember we’re talking here aobut a high school. The most important role of a high school teacher, let’s say Math, is to present correct subject matter and to know the subject. In my time as an AP (Mathy) that was tyhe critical thing above all else. But I knew the subject matter and knew if the teacher were doing it properly. I knew techniques I had used as a techer of mathematics for 15 years before becoming a Supervisor. I didn’t dare think until I had spent about 10 years as an Assistant Principal tha I was capable of supervisingh a high school (I never applied for that job; who needed it anyway). Now we have fly by nighters coming into education,l spending a couple of years, off to the Leadership Academy and voila they’re Principals. No experience as an Assistant Principal. No experience in working with teachers to improve instruction in a subject area. So tell me Queens Parent, under the Klein Doctrine, who is supervising the teachers? How many kids are given the opportunity to take Science Research classes in these news small schools. NYC was down to 1 semi finalist this year I believe in the annual comnpetion. When I attended Erasmus Hall High School, yes a large school in the 1960;s, the school had 10 Westinghouse winners each year (and it was a neighborhood zoned school). And there was a union then to protect teaqchers from things that were arbitrary and capricious. Need I remind you of what we went through in this country with the McCarthy era.

   No, not all teachers are perfect and I agree 100% that incompetent teachers have to go. And there are procedures for doing so. But again,k it almost seems that Joel Klein (or is it Bloomberg) thinks he should be judge, jury, and excutioner. Sorry, it doesn’t work that way in our country.

10. 

    Jeff S

    February 3rd, 2010 7:04 pm

    Excuse the typos in my long post above. I was at the eye doctor today and the dilating drops are still dilating my pupils. Don’t bother writing I am illiterate.

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