Comments on: On U.S. math test, NYC sees gradual but not short-term gains

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[...] On U.S. math test, NYC sees gradual but not short-term gains … [...]

By: Salyse

Salyse — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 16:11:18 +0000

How can Cantor say that the DOE doesn’t put too much weight on changes in test scores over a two-year period whey they just handed out over $30 million in principal bonuses based on a one-year change in test scores? That seems like a lot of “weight” to me! Tweed = deadweight.

By: C.S.

C.S. — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 14:30:17 +0000

“We wait for longer terms to judge if we’re going in the the right direction or not.”
Funny, if that were true why would the DOE be be restructuring almost every year, and seeing large, drastic changes in the DOE at least every 5? If we keep changing so dramatically and quickly, how will we know what’s helping or hurting? Some people realize that there’s too little data about what’s been going on in these “portfolio” school districts to make a fair evaluation–just not the DOE.

By: Michael M.

Michael M. — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 13:54:27 +0000

Smith,

Just think how much better off NYC students might be in the POST-Klein years.

Instead, we’ve got a “manager” who acts like he’s won the world series when in fact he’s just mid-pack.

His strategy for the next four years? Blame the teachers (not just the UFT contract costs, but them PERSONALLY, as he has done in a HuffPost essay), and bring in the “closers,” aka charters.

All of this stands in stark contrast to the fact that he gave 98% of his TRADITIONAL public elementary and middle schools A’s and B’s just prior to his boss’s re-erection (sic).

This administration is like a rooster taking credit for the sunrise…. at 11 pm, just in time for the news.

By: Smith

Smith — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 23:42:28 +0000

How do the Klein years compare to the pre-Klein years?

By: Galtonian

Galtonian — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 20:59:54 +0000

I think the NAEP tests should replace all of the different tests that the individual states develop and administer. If everyone took the same national test (and I think private and religious school students should also be required to take the same national test) then it would be much easier to make comparisons between different jurisdictions and between public and private schools. It is a big waste of money and resources to have each state trying to reinvent the wheel by making up their own tests each year. As for the ethnoracial differences in academic achievement test scores, why is it that each school system, each city, and each state, has to go through this charade each year and pretend like it is some big surprise that Blacks and Hispanics perform at a lower level than Whites and Asians? All knowledgeble scholars in the fields of cognitive and educational psychology know that there are ethnoracial group differences in IQ-type intelligence, this has been known for many decades. Why then does anybody expect that on academic achievement tests Blacks (average IQ ~85) and Hispanics (ave IQ ~88) will score as high as Whites (ave IQ ~100) or Asians (ave IQ ~105)?

By: Michael M.

Michael M. — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 20:25:06 +0000

CH,

Real improvement, perhaps. Not the point I was making.

But real improvement at no different a rate than elsewhere? In NYC, “Mikey’s Miracle” is all hype. Re “reforms reaching upper grades”, perhaps though I dare say middle school and elementary school deserve different approaches, but on the NAEP data:
EIGHT cities showed more improvement since 2003 in 8th grade than in 4th.
Only TWO cities (NYC and DC) showed more improvement since 2003 in 4th than 8th.

This would suggest it’s easier to make a difference at 8th grade, no?

Also, per 1st graphic, in NYC anyway, 8th graders started from farther back, which intuitively to me suggests that it might be harder to get improvement out of 4th grade than 8th grade, consistent with the 8 v 2 tally.

The emperor might have $100M to spend on new clothes, but the data lays it bare.

By: Clara Hemphill

Clara Hemphill — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 20:08:56 +0000

I don’t know. It seems to me that slow and steady gains over six years DO represent real improvement. Real gains ARE slow and steady. And you would expect 4th grade to improve more than 8th grade, because it takes time for reforms to reach the upper grades. Any statisticians out there care to comment?

By: Michael M.

Michael M. — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 19:55:47 +0000

Oops. “…whose.”
Darn non-charter, non-private, edumacation. ; – )

By: Michael M.

Michael M. — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 19:54:10 +0000

NYC 8th graders may have seen a 7-point increase since 2003. Fine.

But the comparison should not be to 2003 scores — it should be to other cities’ scores over the same period, no?

One point better than the nation as a whole, and two points BEHIND large cities as a group. Heck, we’re weighing DOWN the performance of OTHER large cities.

On the above graphic there are at least FIVE other cities with better performance (for that group, looked at similarly). And a number of other cities who’s 8th graders pulled up MORE than their 4th graders (better than the other way round, imho.)

Can we swap Klein for one of THEIR Chancellors? Wait, don’t tell me…. Do those cities have “mayoral control?”

Argh.

Can we get $100M for a “debunk the funk” campaign?

By: Born In Brooklyn

Born In Brooklyn — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 19:05:27 +0000

After all the money, all the reorganization, etc., this is the best performance the NYCDOE can demonstrate? I just don’t think this cuts it and I think the Mayor, Chancellor, PEP, and other leadership should be held accountable for paltry results proportionate to resources and time allocated. Seven some odd years and how much money spent?

By: NYC Educator

NYC Educator — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 16:35:35 +0000

I give them a D and suggest we close Tweed.