ATRs in the Teachers Lounge

October 22, 2009

ATRs in the Teachers Lounge

by Ariel Sacks, at 10:11 am

Strange happenings … There are ATRs in the teacher’s lounge of my school. Let me explain.

As you probably know, starting this summer the Mayor put a freeze on hiring of any non-DOE teachers. So teachers who just moved to the city, as well as newbies out of any teacher prep program, including NYC Teaching Fellows and TFA, have all been left with no job prospects in the public schools. This is because of the ATRs, who are teachers who have been excessed — NOT fired — from their positions.

Excessing happens when funding for a position closes up or a school closes down. Now, it is pretty difficult to fire a tenured teacher. It requires lots of documentation from the principal, multiple chances for the teacher to redeem him or herself, and there is strong legal representation for all teachers provided by the union, so even in the clearest of cases, it can take a few years. Many principals take the easy way out and simply dry up the position, thereby excessing the unwanted teacher. Often this is nothing more than a bad match between teacher and principal/school, and such teachers secure positions at other schools quickly. In other cases, the excessed teacher doesn’t find a position at another school, but continues to receive his or her salary from the DOE as per the contract — if you’re not fired, then you still have a job, even if that job is actually no job at all.

My school had a number of vacancies at the end of last year. We were able to hire a bunch of experienced NYC teachers who were fleeing their schools for the greener pastures promised by my school (I hope we’re delivering!). But a few positions remained open. My principal interviewed 37 ATRs. That’s right, 37. She said they were the most depressing interviews she has ever done, and that she “could not, in good conscience, hire any of them.”

Why were the interviews so bad? Are these teachers really the dregs of the profession? Or is it that they’ve become all too comfortable being ATRs with no teaching position and do not want to go back to the classroom?

Two weeks into the school year, we still did not have a math teacher for my grade. A string of subs covered the math class, while we attempted to wait the hiring freeze out.

A few weeks later, the city decided to place all ATRs in vacancies throughout the city. We received three from a high school that was shut down. These three teachers, all middle aged, have 10-15 years of experience and get paid much more than I do However, they do not want to be at my school, and they know they are not wanted either. In the classroom, they behave like incompetent substitutes. No order, no real planning, no real teaching. Some have been rude to students on occasion. Students get rude right back to them (and you know how middle schoolers can be when they feel disrespected). It’s not good.

Finally, we found a solution. The hiring freeze has been lifted in the area of special education. One of our special education teachers is certified to teach any middle school subject. She agreed to take over the math position, although she’s never been a head teacher before. We are now in the process of hiring a new special education teacher.

Meanwhile, we still have the three ATRs … in our classrooms covering whenever someone’s absent, and on our payroll as the most senior people in the building.

In the teacher’s lounge they are like refugees. It’s weird. I feel bad for them. They seem like they have come from a school that was, like many large urban public schools, more of a war zone than a learning environment. They seem almost traumatized, and ready to attack at any moment.

One of the ATRs is covering for a special education teacher who is on maternity leave. If no teacher is absent, I can count on her to be in my room while I have my CTT class. (When she’s not there, I’m on my own … another story for another post.) She’s actually a nice woman who is trying to do a decent job. She observed in my classroom, while students busily did their work, then came to the meeting area to respond to a poem. She visibly relaxed and her facial expression changed when she saw my students’ real capabilities. Now she greets me in the morning and tells me whether she’ll be in my class or not that day. She asks me about the curriculum, and is trying to work more with the students. It’s nice to see the shift, but honestly, I feel like I’m training her, while she gets paid twice my salary.

Another ATR as been assigned to teach an 8th grade advisory, since our (now) math teacher cannot, because she’s still in charge of all middle school IEP’s and needs time in her schedule for it, and I cannot because I am team leader and department chair and need time in my schedule for that. However, this ATR just hands out whatever materials we give him, and sits in the room and reads a book.

So who’s responsible for this situation? I do not fault the mayor. It’s a smart business move to stop paying for teachers who have no positions, especially in a recession. However, given the turnover rates in high poverty schools, you know which schools had to take the ATRs instead of the usual TFA’ers (who can be just as inept, but are usually far more committed and faster learners).

But who is responsible for these ATRs apparent low ability to teach? Look at the environment they must be coming from. Is it their fault they were teaching under horrible conditions and probably received no support? And, although, I believe principals need a real reason to fire a teacher, perhaps the union is at fault when the process for firing inept teachers takes years. Kids lose out during those years. And which principal gave these teachers tenure so many years ago? Were they different teachers back then?

I feel like I’m in the twilight zone. Should I just “suck it up” and teach this woman what I know? Like I said, she’s actually a nice person who seems eager to learn. Should I train this man to run an advisory? My kids deserve that…

Ariel Sacks teaches eighth-grade English and serves as a team leader at a middle school in Brooklyn. This post originally appeared on her blog, On the Shoulders of Giants.

http://tuttlesvc.org Tom Hoffman

What kind of person considers themselves a leader in a school and considers willfully withholding training to new teachers in their school because she resents their contractual salary?

Perhaps if the school had hired ATR’s before school started, made them feel welcome and offered some training in unfamiliar (to some high school teachers at least) procedures like advisory, things would be going better.

Someday you may find yourself in the same position.
http://MoreThoughtful.blogspot.com ceolaf

We have a group of teachers who Ms. Sacks suggests might not have been properly supported at their old school.

They know that they are not wanted (i.e. respected? valued? seen as human beings?) at Ms. Sacks school, and maybe not anywhere in the system. After all, we all know that many principals have said quite clearly that they will not hire ATRs.

In what industries do we expect people to do their best work when they have not been supported and feel unwanted? In what industries do we even expect them to work hard?

Mr. Hoffman is right. Thing might have been different if they were treated like professional educators from the start, like a part of the staff with professional responsibilities. It’s interesting to me that the only teacher with whom Ms. Sacks has had extensive personal/professional contact, the one which she knows has been treated the least bit decently and about whose conduct she can testify first hand, that teacher acts like a professional.

Everything else she writes is hearsay.

********************

As for how long it takes to remove a teacher? It goes a lot of faster if they are properly evaluated all along. They only get tenure if they get good evaluations. And if principals wait until it has already been clear for months or years that a teacher is performing unacceptably to even begin to attempt to document this, it is the principal — NOT THE UNION — that is responsible for the delay.
http://www.accountabletalk.com Mr. Talk

This article is a disgrace. We have here a teacher who obviously resents other teachers who make more than she does (one assumes she thinks she is worth more). She accepts the principal’s assertion that not ONE ATR was qualified to teach at her school as the gospel truth. She implies that she thinks these teachers are the “dregs” of the profession based upon…what? Hearsay? Obviously the author is in league with the principal–”WE’ tried to subvert the hiring freeze…”WE” found a way around it. As a teacher and a union member, do you really feel that you should be on your principal’s side as he violates the spirit and letter of the contract?

There is no such thing as a teacher who is licensed to teach all subject in a middle school. Did anyone fact check this piece? In truth, that special ed teacher is teaching OUT OF LICENSE in violation of the teacher’s contract and Klein’s hiring freeze.

There is an assertion here that TRAs are “more committed and faster learners” than ATRs. That is nothing but a bald faced slur on a group of teachers who have put in more years than the author and all the TFAs in her school combined.

Finally, I don’t think it’s the twilight zone you’re in, although I have no doubt, Ms. Sachs, that your head has wandered to some nether region and has somehow made it up a passageway vertically.

Gotham Schools–you should be ashamed to print such nonsense. Ms. Sachs, I sure hope your principal promised you some plum job for writing it.
http://MoreThoughtful.blogspot.com Alexander Hoffman

It looks like people are objecting to the broad brush with which Ms. Sacks has painted ATRs.

I wonder if she could tell us a bit more about her personal experience with them.

I also wonder why she might question the need to train an ATR to do advisory. Wouldn’t most teachers need such training? Real advisory programs are not that common. (Dr. Rhia Hamilton just completed her doctoral disseration at Teachers College on advisory programs. If you’re curious, you might want to look it up. There is so little real research on advisory, it really makes some valuable contributions.)

And last, I cannot make sense of why Ms. Sacks would call TFAers more comitted than ATRs. Haven’t the ATRs been in the profession for years already? If TFAers are brand new, from whence does the assumption of their greater comittment arise? Again, this is a problem coming painting with a broad brush, methinks.
Michael M.

Wowza.

Re “So who’s responsible for this situation? I do not fault the mayor. It’s a smart business move to stop paying for teachers who have no positions, especially in a recession.”

And why NOT fault the Mayor (and/or Chancellor) for what LED to those eliminated positions? And why NOT put those teachers into classrooms when the average class size is going UP.

This mean-spirited essay utterly sidesteps a good many questions that led to the ATR situation in the first place, and casts aspersions not warranted by any sort of individual performance review on ALL teachers who find themselves in ATR status.

Sort of… “If you ever deserved tenure, how’d you end up an ATR ‘ready to attack’ anyone who clearly envies your paycheck?”

The corker is that Ms. Sacks thinks *her* “twilight zone” is more surreal than that of the ATR’s.

Also, Ms. Sacks’ statement that three ATR teachers are the highest paid teachers in the building substantiates the assertion I’ve seen a number of times that school closures resulting in the ATR are driven by other factors than advertised. In this case, washing out high-paid senior teachers. And what happened to “hold harmless” as to teacher salary impacts on principals’ budgets? Didn’t we read here on GS that Klein had bundled that with clearing the ATR bench?

“Team Leader.” The definition is up for grabs. Hope it’s not tenured.
http://www.classsizematters.org Leonie Haimson

I don’t wonder at the negative attitude of these ATR teachers, who after many years in the profession have now been assigned to be substitute teachers and worse, to take the place of special ed teachers or teach CTT classes without any relevant training and outside their certification; why the author of this passage feels that this is appropriate use of their talents I have no idea. More likely if they were assigned classes that took advantage of their specific training and/or abilities they would have a more positive attitude.
mr. citizen

The fact of the matter is that every single principal wants a good teacher and will pay whatever it takes to have one. The problem with the ATR pool is that the union contract prevents the DOE from differentiating between good ATRs and the problematic ones you would never want in front of a classroom of students. I went to job fairs this summer and had ATRs say things to me like “I hate middle schoolers” or “I bide my time on eBay while my students are working”, but there were also ATRs who had thoughtful and smart ideas about working with students and had the experience to back it up. If the ATR pool was reserved for teachers who want to teach, like kids and have some track record of actually getting results in the classroom, schools would be singing their praises. Instead, there are way too many bad seeds that give the talented teachers in the pool a bad rep.
http://MoreThoughtful.blogspot.com Alexander Hoffman

Mr. Citizen,

I think that Ms. Stacks explained the problem quite differently. As she explained it, it’s not that there’s no way to differentiate the good ATRs from the the problematic. Rather, it’s that principals use ATR as a way to get rid of problematic teachers instead of fulfilling their own responsibility to evaluate them fairly and begin the process of removing them. By her reasoning, the problem is that principals are biasing the pool towards bad teachers. She also reports that — presumably as a results — not one in 37 ATRs could, in good conscience, be hired.

I also have to take issue with you claim that “every single principal wants a good teacher and will pay whatever it takes to have one.” What if the cost is someone they don’t like, who is high maintenance or causes trouble for them as a principal? What if the cost is letting go of some of their preconceptions?

it would be great if we could count on all principals, teachers and educators to do the right thing all the time, or even to live up to their own values all the time. But fact of the matter is that they, like members of every other profession and industry, are human beings. There are costs they won’t pay, sometimes consciously and sometimes unconsciously.
QueensParent

Well said Mr. Citizen. It is standard human resource practice to differentiate among employee abilities, evaluate accordingly, and then take appropriate action (re-assign, fire, promote, etc) but this practice is so alien in NYC, where everyone in a union must be treated the same regardless of ability, even if it means that the end result is children are abused or mis-educated in the process. What parent in their right mind would want a low performing teacher in charge of their kids’ class. The answer? No parent would. The adults know this practice is shameful and wrong, but they don’t care. They just care about getting paychecks for adults. Damn the children is what they are saying. Mayor Bloomberg called this question out a long time ago: Is the school system run for the benefit of adults, or for the benefit of children? With this ATR issue the answer becomes very clear. The only remaining question is how much longer this horrible practice of retaining low performing teachers in do-nothing jobs will go on in New York.
http://MoreThoughtful.blogspot.com ceolaf

QueensParent,

All teachers are a supposed to be formally evaluated every year. Only those who perform adequately are suppose to get tenure. Is that not a way to treat teachers of different ability levels differently?

Teachers who receive poor evaluations are subject to efforts to help them. Is that not another way?

Teachers who do not respond to such efforts are subject to dismissal, in spite of their having previously earned tenure.

What’s the problem?

Furthermore, promotions to Coach, Team Leader, Assistant Principal and/or Principal take prior performance into account.

What more are you calling for?

The issue here is not that low performing teachers are treated the same as high performing teachers. Heck, in Ms. Sacks’s story, the presumably low performing teaching (ATRs) are clearly treated differently than the non-ATR teachers. The issue, however, is something you allude to. It is standard HR practice to evaluate performance and record those evaluations in writing — annually if not more often. Ms. Sacks and I disagree on a few things, but we do agree that THAT standard HR practice has been skipped.

So, I ask you, in the absence of accurate evaluations of performance, how do you recommend we recognize which teachers are high performing and which are not?
http://tuttlesvc.org Tom Hoffman

But in this case, the school, or Ms. Sacks at least, seems to be applying “the widget effect” as much as union and administration, resenting the possibility that experienced high school teachers dropped into a middle school after the beginning of the year might need time, help and support in adjusting to the change. Shouldn’t that be “standard human resource practice?”
mr. citizen (do it for the kids)

Mr. Hoffman,

To the extent that principals should observe as much as possible and make better and more informed tenure decisions, I couldn’t agree with you more. The fact that something like 95% of DOE teachers receive tenure is stunning and shameful. However, principals who want a break from that tradition and want effective teachers for their students shouldn’t have to suffer because a principal 15 years ago forgot to enter a tenure decision. If the only out is to excess a bad teacher because of contract stipulations which make the arbitration process a total, endless nightmare, how can you blame that principal for doing so?

I blame a union contract that forces principals to pass the buck to other schools with regards to bad teachers instead of having the ability to get rid of them altogether. There are over 1,200 teachers who are a part of the ATR pool; you don’t believe that 37 of them are incompetent? I’d say that number is closer to, say, 800.

In any case, the bottom line is that principals are the ones held accountable for the student outcomes in their building, and if a teacher is high maintenance or causes trouble, it is likely that the same teacher isn’t seeking out professional opportunity and won’t accept constructive feedback. If you could prove to me through student achievement data that those same teachers are actually effective, that’s another story. Sadly, the UFT prevents schools from obtaining and using that kind of data to make evaluative decisions (at least at the secondary level), so if a principal perceives that a teacher is ineffective, I would argue that the cost of having a bad teacher in front of a group of kids should be taken a lot more seriously than mumbo jumbo “human being” costs about preconceptions and feelings.
mr. citizen (do it for the kids)

And just to clarify, my comment is aimed at Alexander Hoffman and not Tom Hoffman.
Pogue

Wow, I’ve never seen teachers being publicly attacked by another teacher before. Knowing how difficult the job can be over time, and how much time is devoted to trying to help children over the course of a career, this is a pretty sad occasion. I guess that’s how Bloomberg and Klein want it now. Divide, conquer, privatize, and reap the rewards.

Keep it sinking, NYC.
http://themortonschool.blogspot.com Miss Eyre

Interesting that Ms. Sacks points out that when the ATR has specific responsibilities and kids to look after, she seems different. Wow. So maybe, just maybe, if ATRs were treated with respect and given the permanent positions they had (and merited) all along, they wouldn’t be spaced-out zombies, sitting in the teachers’ lounge with nothing to do? Color me shocked.

Oh, and not all nontraditionally certified teachers are as ignorant and ill-informed as Ms. Sacks makes herself out to be in this piece. Word from a (proud) NYCTF.
http://themortonschool.blogspot.com Miss Eyre

Also: I once taught in a school with an advisory program. I went to eight training sessions, scattered throughout the school year, on how to be an advisor and also had meetings with the advisory team for my grade level once a week. Even after all that, I felt I only had the most tenuous grasp on being an advisor. It’s a very difficult job for even the most committed and idealistic teacher. Most everyone needs some training and practice to get good at it, just like anything else. So tarring these teachers because advisory is a challenge is doubly unfair. Even I, who was as idealistic (and naive) as any full-of-youth-and-energy nontraditionally certified teacher, needed to work at it.
http://MoreThoughtful.blogspot.com Alexander Hoffman

Mr. Citizen,

If your goal is higher reading and math scores on the sorts of tests we have here in New York, you are doubtless correct in every instance.

If your goal is higher level thinkings, creativity, analytical thinking, persistence, empathy, imagination, communication, commitment, humility, joy, analysis and perspective?

I just learned a few minutes ago that Ted Sizer died yesterday. Perhaps this is a good time for people to revisit Horace’s Compromise (and Horace’s School and Horace’s Hope). Think about what the real aims of schooling should be, and whether the way we treat treat teachers and students are compatible with that vision.

You blame a contract when you admit that principals have not lived up to their responsibilities under the contract? You blame the contract when principals are willing to pass on their known problem to other schools — where those principals would have to begin the evaluation process from scratch, adding something like a year to the process? And your solution to the failure of so many principals to do their job is to entrust them to make arbitrary and data-less decisions about teacher quality without having to document them?

Seriously, Mr. Citizen, how can you trust principals to do that properly, fairly and in the students’ best interested when they weren’t doing that before? Or is it just the good principals whom you want to have this kind of power? How will you identify them?

I was told by my last principal “Stop worrying about critical and analytical thinking; just teach English.” Then he gave me a bad evaluation — expecting that I would grieve it and win the grievance — to show me that my efforts to get teachers involved in a collective conversation about how we might together support each others’ work was not appreciated.

Principals are human being. Some of them quite flawed. All of them with human amounts of insecurity, jealousy, pride and all the rest. How do you account for that?

The bottom line is that teachers see students daily, knowing just about all of them them far more intimately than any administrator will, and develop a felt obligation towards. There is no proposed mechanism for principals to be held accountable for the results you seem to care most about (i.e. test scores), but there is lots of pressure to hold teachers accountable for them.

I don’t side with teachers every time over principals, and I have great respect for how hard their job is. But relieving them of the requirement to evaluate and support their teachers? That’s not going to improve our schools or the meaningful outcomes and lessons we are hoping for.

So, please, Mr. Citizen, this week that saw the passing of Dr. Sizer, let me know when which things I have written count as “mumbo jumbo.”
Michael Fiorillo

Cluelessness and arrogance combined: excellent middle management potential!

Such a totally blind sense of self-importance and superiority is common everywhere and in all fields – although its seems the epidemic is worsening in education – so for me the question is why would Gotham Schools publish it.

Is it “to start a conversation?” If so, a better conversation-starter could have been found.

Or is it to spread and validate a fundamentally pro-management attitude among teachers?
canwetalk

I’m wondering if Ariel Sacks attended the Michele Rhee Leadership School of Anti-Teacher and Back-Stabbing Academy. I hope I never run in to you because I will give you a piece of my mind! This is the mayor’s fault and it will always be the mayor’s fault for creating this situation. If the mayor had not closed so many schools and had funded them to help those schools to turnaround these schools around the ATRs would be in classrooms teaching. You don’t get terminated for being excessed. Excessing has existed for many many years. Years ago it was called tipping! The only people who want excessed teachers fired are the mayor, Klein, Michelle Rhee and YOU. What kind of team leader are you? Does the T stand for traitor, the E for egotistic, the A for arrogance, and the M for mindless!

How dare you!!!!
fred

i am an atr assigned to a school in the bronx. i was recently observed in my class, btw a vacancy, and not really my area of expertise, but since i am a “middle-aged” teacher with lots of experience i received a written response from my supervisor with congatulations on a job well done. yes, we senior teachers who make more money than you are paid this way because we are expert teachers and you are not; apparently basing your ill conceived opinions on a handful of atrs at your school. get a life…..
canwetalk

To Fred,
Thank you for coming to the ATRs’ defense by sharing your experience. How many people would like to bet that she’s a team leader because she plans to eventually apply to Klein’s Leadership Academy? Anyone wants to bet a nickel! Because that’s what her comments are worth.
inexile

Oh my god, I am so sick of teachers like Ms. Sacks. They’re the super teachers. They believe they are good at everything. They live for the “kids.” They have no life and think it’s appropriate to dedicate every living moment to help a kid. This is not a profession with certain parameters; for a teacher like this – it’s a mission, a calling. They make excuses for the kids’ poor behavior. Is it appropriate for middle school kids to disrespect a teacher because they feel disrespected? There’s always a hint of racism and class issues in a teacher like this. There here to save the poor brown kids – to change the world. Ugh make me barf! This was indeed a sickening post by a self-righteous, immature, ego-maniac. I agree with canwetalk, I see leadership academy written all over her. Get over yourself, Ms. Sacks.
Ariel Sacks

Wow, lots to respond to. I am thinking a lot about the folks who’ve commented that Bloomberg and Klein are trying to divide and conquer and also shut down schools with lots of veteran teachers to save money. I’m not with that at all and you may have a point. Thinking about that… I have no problem with a veteran teacher making much more than I do as long as the teacher is working for it. I had no idea my post came off so negative towards the ATRs–the language some comments have used has really shocked me. I see their situation as being quite unfair for them, and their ambiguous status at my school is a real problem for everyone. That said, I was trying to be generous toward the 3 who are placed here because I have some sympathy for their situation and I also hate teacher bashing, but it seems I’ve teacher-bashed nonetheless? I agree with the comment that most of the excessed teachers find themselves jobs because principals will pay a lot for great teachers–and those that won’t can get out of town as far as I’m concerned. Well, here’s what I left out about these teachers who were not able to get jobs for themselves and were placed against their wills at my school.

One ATR said on the first day, “I don’t want to be here and if they put me in a classroom I’ll just babysit.”

One was given an advisory and told he’s the official advisor. We (my teammates) gave him curriculum and explained it to him. He passed out the written materials and sat at the desk reading the paper. We then told him he needed to grade the materials. He did not.

One said to a student about another student, “Don’t talk to him, because he’s dumb and won’t get anywhere in life.”

So, these things need to be documented by my principal. But this is where my negativity is coming from. I am posting this because I need to run right now, but will respond more later.
http://www.accountabletalk.com Mr. Talk

“Sacks says she may one day pursue a job as a school administrator, but for now she’s happy as a teacher.”

Oh my. I am so surprised.

http://resources.topschooljobs.org/tsj/job-seekers/2007/07/18/profile_sacks_web.html.html
Pogue

Wow, this makes me sentimentally long for the good old days of Socrates and “I had a teacher in the next room who…”.
canwetalk

Ariel, These ATRs confided in you on how they feel and you used their weak moments of frustration and disappointment for your 5 minutes of fame.

It is unconscionable what you did by having your lengthy writing of these union issues blogged especially since you know nothing about their plight in this mayoral-corrupted control system. Do your research first! Speak to the chapter leader first! Read the New York Teacher Newspaper first! Call a UFT borough office and speak to a district rep FIRST!!! When you have gathered all your facts then speak on behalf of the teachers. You never know what the future has instore for you when the rug is yanked from under your feet one day. Remember there is always Karma in this system.
Marty

The sounds like it could have been a post about a principal who allows a teacher to sit and read the paper instead of teaching. Instead, you blame the union, a distant third party.
Ariel Sacks

A few clarifications about who I am in this profession: I am teacher and plan to stay a teacher. I do not like Michelle Rhee’s work. From what I can tell she has little respect for teachers. I believe teachers are the solution to American education reform, not the problem. But we need more of a voice. That’s what I try to do in my blog and with my involvement with the Teacher Leaders Network, which seeks to elevate the voices of teachers in education policy (Most members are veteran teachers).

That said, I am not a martyr teacher with no life. I’m not here to save the kids. I’m not a super teacher. I just like teaching. My school lacks veteran teachers and this is our biggest weakness. (We have a number of 5-10 year teachers but no veterans and I miss working among really experienced teachers). I do not believe that shutting down schools solves the problems of those schools or ensures that the students will get a better education. I am not a fan of Klein and Bloomberg, which I believe I’ve made quite clear in my blog. I probably do need to do some more research about the situation of ATRs. I really don’t understand it, and it does seem like poor planning on the part of the mayor. I know many good teachers who’ve been excessed and found jobs pretty quickly. Why did the ATR’s who are currently at my school against their wills not get jobs elsewhere? Is the problem here a combination of age discrimination and principals not wanting to pay for veterans? Or simply not enough positions? By the way, the ATRs at my school did not confide in me. If you thought that, you misunderstood me.

Now I need some clarification from some of you: Was my blog post harmful? If so, to whom? Words like “unconscionable” and “traitor” are very strong. The way you’ve polarized the conversation is exactly what you despise Klein and Rhee and the mainstream media for doing when they fuel the anti-teacher mentality that so many hold. If we, teachers, want to have a real voice in what happens, we have to be able to speak our minds and have real conversations about difficult issues, not hatefests. There are people with power who actually believe we have nothing of value to add to these debates (I’ve been at meetings with some. It is offensive). And those people would think my post was way too sympathetic toward the ATRs. So if you are telling me to go “get a life,” because I offended you, is that the same thing you say to the policy maker who makes decisions that affect our schools and students?

Finally, about collective voice. Do those of you who believe my post was offensive believe that the union represents our interests as a teaching profession?
Muriel

Gee, Ariel, my pretty, I guess you’ve, in your short three-year career, been an ATR so you know exactly what it’s like, right? Why SHOULD the ATR guy listen to arrogant heartless little newbies like yourself when he was yanked out of a perfectly fine teaching position? What makes you better than him? Your illustrious years at Brown University? You have a lot to learn, and if you are as lucky as me, you too will live to be a senior, veteran teacher. You are clueless, snotty, elitist, ignorant, and have a lot to learn. I’m not about to educate you on the history of the ATR situation, but let it suffice to say that this situation never occurred before your corporate fascist leaders, Bloomberg and Klein, took over the Board of Education and made it the Department of Education. The union itself is at fault here too. The waste and corruption is just astounding, and your obvious lack of knowledge of teachers and their role in the labor movement makes your nasty and condescending comments even more reprehensible. You better hope that the powers that be don’t marginalize you the way you’ve marginalized these teachers who were competent at what they were TRAINED to do. You’re a department chair? The DOE used to have assistant principals as department heads. You’re a 3rd-year teacher and a department head???? You are cheap help!!
Rhoda

Wow! I am really disappointed that Ms. Sacks published this. She is going to kill morale in her school and the CTT teacher she works with and whom she spoke about will not be all that thrilled with her. That will affect her classroom relationship with her students.

If I worked in your school in Brooklyn (and I don’t!), I would not trust you or want to associate with you as I wouldn’t know if anything I said or did would end up in print on the internet forever.

I won’t comment more on what you wrote in your post, but I think that you exercised very poor judgment in publishing this missive with your name. It was indeed extremely unprofessional of you to attack your fellow staff members (especially one you work in the classroom with, at least on occasion) in such a public forum.
Ariel Sacks

Marty, you have a point. But let’s say a teacher literally sits and reads the paper in class every day. How long would it take to terminate that teacher’s contract? In my limited understanding, the teacher gets evaluated (along with all teachers) and receive a U rating at the end of a year. A whole year of no teaching. Is he then terminated? I think he gets another year to try to improve. Can he sit and read the paper for another year before getting terminated? It’s one thing if a struggling teacher is trying to improve, and then its a matter of getting the right support. But what if he or she isn’t? How long does the contract support that?
Rhoda

Ariel, I have been teaching for 21 years (almost at top salary now) and have seen some terribly incompetent teachers in my day (including some who were protected by the administration for political reasons), but haven’t ever seen a teacher just read the newspaper in class all year long. There are ways for administrators to deal with that situation immediately–if this is allowed to persist, then it is a reflection on the administration and not the tacher.

The real problem is that you admit that you have a limited understanding. Perhaps you should not write about topics for which your understanding is so limited. (Research some of the horror stories on the internet!) You have gotten so much wrong, but more than that you still fail to grasp that by using your real name to discuss real people in your real school, you are going to cause a great deal of divisiveness.

I always help out my colleagues when they ask–whether they are more senior than I am or just plain newbies. Something about your post and your attitude makes you sound mean-spirited. I doubt that you are, but….

Have you ever tried to reach out to those ATR’s and make them feel welcome? Do you think that this article is going to make the situation better for them or for your school, and consequently for your students?

I have no problem with you voicing your opinion whatever I think about it–but it should have been anonymous. It is very possible that by being so public that you have harmed the morale of the staff in your school and that affects students a great deal!!! Trust me–I have been at this quite successfully for more than 2 decades!!!!!
Ariel Sacks

Muriel, I’ve been teaching for 6 years. But yes, I am cheap help. My principal and AP taught for less time than me, though. (Don’t kill the messenger.)

I have to say, you think my post was condescending, but seem to think it’s okay to condescend to me directly, “my pretty,” and use sarcasm to make your point. Unfortunately, I think you know a lot I’d like to know but won’t get the truth out because you’ll stay offended by people who don’t know what you know.

Rhoda, I appreciate that just stated what bothered you without sarcasm and name-calling. I’ve only extremely rarely written about anyone specific at my school and never in an unfavorable light until this post. Most of my opinions about my colleagues are known to them. Maybe it was unwise to make negative feelings public, but I would never be having these conversations if I hadn’t put my experience and perspective out there. Again, did I actually harm anyone? I am beginning to think, based on all of your comments, that my principal needs to take on more leadership in this situation. I have been made to think that the ATR’s are not actually my colleagues. The CTT, I found out, is not going to stay in that role. The advisor may not either. So how much do I invest in these relationships? Really, what the heck is going on? Hoffman is right, the twilight zone must be worse for them, but it affects everyone.
Ellen

Maybe we should go back to the issue of how a principal is assigning his/her staff? And address the issue of the CTT class…is there a CTT class or is there a period(s) when there are two teachers in the room. It’s not clear.
As far as the ATRs are concerned, would any one of us like to be moved around willy-nilly? it takes time to by into a school, as a teacher as a student or as a parent, and it sounds like some of the teachers might be more comfortable now than they have been in the past. Being accepted by your colleagues is a good first step. Pity never works.
I don’t think we should be hitting Ms. Sacks over the head, but questioning the principal of the school about using staff well.
SMH

Let’s face it, the DOE lacks accountability on all fronts. I have seen and met ATRs that I don’t know how they got jobs in the first place. Lets remember how easy it was years ago to become a NYC teacher. I also have seen Principals sabatoge the efforts of an ATR looking for a legitmate position because they told them they would hire them, when in fact, they have intentions of using that ATR in a FT program. I have heard ATRs say I was offered three positions but I only want to work 15 minutes from home and those jobs were 25. I’ve had Principals reach out to many ATRs who won’t return their calls, refuse to interview and even turn down positions within their district. I’ve heard Principals say they refuse to hire ATRs in their building unfairly discriminating. I’ve heard ATRs with an entitlement attitude when lets face it, in corporate america many skilled people who have contributed to their organizations and taken their own professional development in their hands have been let go with maybe 4 weeks severance.

All ATRs as well as non-ATR teachers are not great educators and are effective in the classroom. There has to be better accountability. If a process proves to cumbersome or ineffective in vetting what its designed to do, it should be changed. Principals should be accountable for who they tenure. And just because someone was tenured after their 3rd year doesnt mean their quality as an educator is at the same level, however the process due to Contract rules makes it cumbersome and therefore as with anything else, people look for a ‘workaround’.

ATRs are human beings and should be treated as the professionals they are but lets stop with the violins and be fact driven not emotion driven. Some ATRs truly dont want to be in the classroom anymore. Who knows what led them to feel this way? Could be the politics, could be simple non-motivation, but there has to be away to get these individuals off of payroll and not forced to fill vacancies to teach our kids. To the rest, who want to teach, the whole system needs an overhaul for them to be treated with the respect they deserve.
Rhoda

Ariel,
One thing I have found under Bloomberg and Klein is that experience in the classroom is looked upon as a deficiency. It is not. Sure, there are some burnt out teachers, but most of us stay in the profession because we love what we do and we (for the most part) do it well.

It seems that if the most senior people in your school are these ATR’s with 10-15 years of experience and your administrator’s (Leadership Academy?) have even less experience than you do (less than 6 years and already leading a school? Even though it is commonplace now, it is still shocking to me. When I started teaching in the early 1980′s–I took a couple of years off when I had my son and daughter–I was told by almost everyone that you shouldn’t even think about becoming an adminstrator until you have 20 years of classroom experience under your belt).

Experience yields wisdom. I think that your principal lacks that if s/he is not making this situation better for all parties involved. An unhappy staff makes for, ultimately, an unhappy classroom and a chaotic school. Unhappy and stressed out staff create the same emotions in students and no real learning can occur. I am sure you see that.

I am constantly observed by newer teachers who marvel at my class control. They always ask for secrets and tips–and I have many…but the biggest secret is that my 21 years in the classroom have taught me more than anything and have helped make me a very successful teacher (with very successful students).

And yes, I have seen some people throughout the years who made me cringe and who I wanted fired–the teacher who was drunk every day, the math teacher who couldn’t speak English and so on….

I work my ninth graders really hard (I choose to teach them, by the way–this is the least desirable group to teach in a high school) and make great strides with them….and yes, there are some math teachers they get in tenth grade and beyond who do nothing–I try to work with those teachers and have had some success.

You get more flies with honey than with vinegar, right? Remember, we are all in this to make our student’s lives better. It serves nobody to attack colleagues publicly or even to have colleagues know what we feel about them. How can you work with them if they know you dislike them or think they are unqualified?
Great leadership means inspiring others….all others. I consider all teachers in NYC to be my colleagues…not just the ones in my school.

I try to smile at everybody because you never know if that smile will be infectious and spread around…..

I think you made some valid points, but they should have been anonymous…and yes, I do think you caused harm to your school, your staff morale and in the long term to your students..

Your intentions in this blog entry seem noble, but remember, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Good luck to you, but please think twice before you publicly excoriate anybody in your school. It just is bad practice.
Rhoda

Errata–
I wrote:
and yes, there are some math teachers they get in tenth grade and beyond who do nothing–I try to work with those teachers and have had some success.
I meant to write ….and beyond who do nothing special.

Also, since I mentioned two highly unqualified teachers, I thought I should say what happened to them. The principal had the drunk teacher removed from the classroom. I believe the teacher later quit. The teacher who didn’t speak English was denied tenure and was fired.
John Powers

Ms. Sacks,

Thank you for having the courage to speak truth to power. I couldn’t agree more with your assertions. Just two years ago, I became an unofficial ATR when District 79 closed, but fortunately I found a job quickly. The truth is I am an awful teacher and probably deserve to be an ATR. At least then I could feel I belong to a group that thinks and teaches like I do. Quite frankly, it is an awful feeling to come to work each day carrying feelings of inadequacy, guilt, and yes, even a bit of anger because I can not perform as others do.

I have tried everything! I have spent over $1,000 on various education textbooks and guides. I have observed master teachers with three to five years of teaching experience and have left their classrooms wishing that I could somehow shave ten years or so off of my fourteen years of service. What can I do? Is it possible to arrange a meeting with you sometime in the future? My principal is somewhat progressive in her stance toward education and I am sure she would have no problem inviting you into our school so you could demonstrate your masterly ways in front of my students. I work at Liberation High School in Coney Island. My students desperately need someone like you to come in and service them in ways that escape some of my colleagues and me.

If you are not able to arrange such a meeting during a number of regular school days, please be advised that we run after school classes. Although I am a member of our after school Inquiry Team, I am sure I could arrange to skip several IT meetings to observe and work alongside you in our PM English class.

Let me know what you think. If we cannot meet in person, perhaps we could Facebook each other and open a line of communication via message and online texting. Ms. Sacks, I am desperate for your help. I can tell from your post that you are a genuinely talented and compassionate person. Please do not let me down. Please do not let our students down. I am sorry. I should not pressure you. You have your hands full with that talentless ATR.

If only there were more of you Ms. Sacks. Tonight when I lay my head down to rest and say my prayers, I will ask my Lord to somehow allow your knowledge and talent to wash over all NYC schools and inundate all teachers with the necessary pedagogical tools and prowess to enlighten children and prepare them for life in the 21st century.

May the Force be with You,

John Powers
Aspiring Jedi Knight of Teaching
English Teacher
Chapter Leader
Liberation H.S.

My Phone #
1-800-RU4-REAL
http://MoreThoughtful.blogspot.com Alexander Hoffman

Ms. Sacks,

You write, “I have been made to think that the ATR’s are not actually my colleagues.”

You wonder what you have said that will cause damage?
David B. Cohen

Ariel,
When I read this blog entry, I thought it might be risky, and here we see why. I think you’ve been candid about yourself and your position, and you’ve exposed problems that many would rather not see. If there are repercussions at school, those are yours to deal with. For those online who are not directly involved but take it upon themselves to be personally offended, and then attack the messenger (often crudely), their approach reveals the limitations of their rhetoric and their ability to construct useful responses to issues you present. When you put yourself out there, you take chances, and on the balance, I think you’ve done well in your efforts to write about students, schools, and teaching.
http://ednotesonline.blogspot.com/ norm

Pogue:
“Wow, this makes me sentimentally long for the good old days of Socrates and “I had a teacher in the next room who…”.

Scratch a few comments above and you might find Socrates still lurking. Socrates, of course, pretended to be a NYC teacher and used the “my neighbor spends every day reading the newspaper” argument. I heard that same line from a TFA once. I bet it’s taught in training sessions for TFA and the Leadership Academy (which is the grad school of TFA.)

What the kids would do to someone who spends the day reading a newspaper.
Ariel Sacks

Jedi John, I guess you are getting a good laugh out of this. I don’t really want to hear what you think about me, but I am interested in anyone’s thoughts about the issue at hand.

Mr. Hoffman, I’m not sure I agree that’s a damaging thing to say. It’s the truth. But maybe I should not be complicit in it. I’m not sure. The only real argument I’m hearing is that I shouldn’t publicly put down other teachers, and that I should respect them because of their years of experience and identify Bloomberg and Klein as the problem here–which I already do on many other issues. But when I’m working my tail off planning and grading, meeting with teachers, and they are in the teacher’s room chatting or photocopying word searches for their next classes, it kind of makes me look at them like, what do you do? Again, I’m not completely faulting them, because the situation they’ve been thrust into seems unfair or at least uncomfortable.

Your responses HAVE made me question my position a bit. I’m going to try to look at the situation within the framework of, these are my colleagues, and see if I see something different.
Ariel Sacks

Rhoda said: “One thing I have found under Bloomberg and Klein is that experience in the classroom is looked upon as a deficiency. It is not. Sure, there are some burnt out teachers, but most of us stay in the profession because we love what we do and we (for the most part) do it well.”

I couldn’t agree more. Just wanted to say that. And Bloomberg and Klein really don’t know anything about teaching. They just try to employ business concepts to education, which doesn’t work when it comes to actual children and learning. The idea that experience is not the most valuable a teacher has is really ridiculous and misguided. But also, yes, there are some burnt out teachers. I think burnout and years on the job are not as related as most people think. I know people who got burnt out after 2 years, and others who never burnt out after 30 years.
fred

to ar: the uft is mainly about security and benefits. it is also about education. see the curriculum they have prepared in the past. no need to go outside to highly paid consultants, textbook and test makers. im glad mulgrew was a teacher and chapter leader. its a good start and time will tell. i really feel bad for those kids who lanquish in our schools. mgmt seeks a solution in seperating the good from the bad. hey, i was a sp kid myself, but let’s not throw out the baby with the bathwater. we still need to do something with those who suffer from lack of support.
Muriel

Ariel, perhaps my anger at your uninformed comments about ATR’s drove my sarcasm and “condescending” remarks. However, you really need to develop empathy, and, judging from your background, you have the ability to analyze a situation beyond what you experience.
One ATR I know returned to their “home” school after an absence of 5 years. Why? This teacher was considered good enough to become a mentor, and then worked at that position for those 5 years. Bloomberg and Klein, in their infinite educational wisdom, got rid of the mentors. Their reward, including my friend, was to be relegated to ATR status. The agenda underlying all this is that the mentors were a group of senior veteran teachers and needed to be put out to pasture. That teacher is fighting the ATR status and has gone on over 30 interviews but no one is really hiring. Ariel, you need to develop some compassion for these people who worked for many years for lower salaries than teachers in other area districts. The payback was a secure job. Remember, teachers are civil service employees, not anything more as far as status. Then the “Education” mayor comes along and corporatized a civil service job. The union allowed ATR’s to be created by closing schools or getting rid of mentors and returning them to classrooms. So these people who worked many years for a lower salary in exchange for job security found themselves in this unconscionable position; furthermore, the union is hanging them out to dry. How would you feel if you were put in this position? The ageism was dripping from your post, reflecting the hard hearted spirit in which Klein and Bloomberg conduct business within the Department of Education.
My .02

We just got an ATR in my school, hired from the pool. This person is a terrific teacher- a team player, cares about the kids and does a good job teaching them (and they like/respect this teacher). I am sure that this person is not the only high-quality person in the pool. But pieces like this will continue to make it harder for those people to get regular positions because they continue to be painted as incompetent.
http://nycpublicschoolparents.blogspot.com Patrick J. Sullivan

I’m concerned about how special education is addressed in your school. Why is it considered a satisfactory “solution” to pull the special ed teacher into math, leaving the kids with special needs without the teaching competence they require?

How many teachers are present for the CTT classes? You make it sound like there is just one on some regular basis.
http://www.tweenteacher.com Heather Wolpert-Gawron

Ariel,
This should be frustrating to every teacher who believes they are dedicated to their craft. This “dance of lemons” is not the only reason civilians look upon tenure and our profession with disdain, but it is a legitimate concern.

Here is an real example: The school received one of these teachers courtesy of a repentant district that admitted the teacher’s early school did not go through its due process to fire her. Principal A had the cahones to fight back enough to dissolve two of her classes for the sake of the kids within them and create a class in which so far there are no kids. Ethically, it makes me want to cry. The union protects this truly student-scarring teacher, while more students and work is piled onto other teachers in order to compensate for trying to make lemonade out of lemons.

I believe the union, whom I greatly support, has a responsibility to support the teachers as a staff as well as the individual. These teachers gave up their time and energy to try to train this inherited woman who clearly would rather have had free periods in which to do nothing.

Perhaps the unions can begin to look at the teachers being imposed upon, the overworked, underpaid, dedicated teachers who always step up to help even those who don’t want it. How is this equitable?

Anyway, I think we all need to hear more of these in-the-trenches stories and put our defensive fists down. Ariel’s story is a reality, and if we don’t look it in the face, education will never get better.

We all have those stories. Should education improvement not be our common goal together?
http://ednotesonline.blogspot.com/ norm

If teachers had real power over the profession and were responsible to each other instead of the principal, these instances would be less likely to happen.
Gail Ritchie

After reading all the comments (and some of them are downright rude and mean-spirited), I have a better understanding of why so many in “education policy world” are anti-union. Here in the Commonwealth of Virginia, we don’t have a union, we have an association, because Virginia, like many southern states is a “Right to Work” state. What that means is that corporations and business are favored over individuals. And because unions have a reputation for protecting even the worst of the worst, all the good work they (the unions) do to protect the rights of deserving individuals goes unrecognized. Salaries are a good example. Anytime there’s a budget crisis, my salary gets frozen, and there’s nothing I or my association can do about it. We don’t have collective bargaining. To help balance its budget, the state of Virginia is considering restructuring our retirement system (which could lose me 40% of my “nest egg”), and again, there’s nothing I or my association can do about it.

Even an outsider like me can see that the ATR situation is complex, with errors made by many of the parties involved. There is no one person (Klein) or entity (UFT) who deserves all the blame. Rather, it’s a symptom of a much larger problem. In this country, we, as a society, don’t seem to value children or their education. Instead, we value entertainment and entertainers. Just follow the money. Do we invest in health care, school infrastructure, or decent salaries for the expertise of caring, knowledgeable professional teachers? No. But we do pay people millions of dollars to play games for a living and to star in movies and television shows.

Thank you, Ariel Sacks, for having the courage to question a negative situation and start a conversation about causes/effects and potential solutions. We teachers need to speak up about issues that affect education, because otherwise policy decisions are made by people who know little to nothing about our profession, resulting in situations like the ATRs.

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October 22, 2009

ATRs in the Teachers Lounge

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