Comments on: Girls Prep charter wants more space, but doesn’t want a fight

By: Alexia Berater

Alexia Berater — Sat, 09 Oct 2010 23:36:42 +0000

I just want to say thanks for this interesting thread about Girls Prep charter wants more space, but doesn’t want a fight | GothamSchools! Regards, Alexia Berater

By: Naiesha

Naiesha — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:08:07 +0000

F.Y.I —– there are children in temporary housing at GP….

The people pitting the public school parents against the charter schools is the UFT and the teachers it represents. The rubber rooms are out of control, the teachers are out of control and now Rosie Mendez is out of control. Oh! Rosie yea she was endorsed by the UFT so she has to keep in good with them even if it means not making the right decisions or solutions to help better the future of our country. Rosie forgets she is 1 that was voted in by many people and the DISRESPECT she has shown the parents at GP will be evident come re-election. I guess UFT feels endangered that they have resorted to commercials on television….what next?

By: Naiesha

Naiesha — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 19:33:55 +0000

@Goldiemary…there aren’t many girls from District 1 because the parents of these girls CHOSE not to apply for the lottery and I am witness to this as I stood on line the very first day enrollment opened up and was looking for many familiar faces in the crowd and there were about 3 or 4 out of the 90 seats that were available. Parents play a big role in the education of their kids and I CHOOSE to take that train and bus to get my daughter to a place that I know will flourish my daughter’s mind and give her the tools to be a leader in ANY community. I don’t know if many of the parents in 188 are opposed to finding a better school for their kids because they would have to travel and not be able to drop their kids off in school while they are still wearing their pajamas or they just don’t know any better and have been scared by the teachers telling them that we want to run their kids out….I guess small minds will stay in small circles….

By: Goldiemary

Goldiemary — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 20:17:18 +0000

I can’t help but notice that girls prep describes its intentions as being at full capacity as
a K-8. I wonder does that mean K-8 in this building.
This question has caused me to read their proposal for renewal with intense interest. I
have several observations and questions.
Does Girls Prep meet the needs of the SURROUNDING community?
They state that girls prep gives “absolute admissions preference to students
residing in District 1.”
Yet, at most 50% of their students are from District 1. If they were meeting a need or
even a desire of District 1 parents, I would think that they would have more than 25 girls
out of the hundreds of District 1 incoming kindergarten class choose Girls Prep.
They point to their 400 girls on their waiting list as proof that there is demand
for their school. I agree that this does show demand for their school, but obviously not
in District 1 because if even 25 of the girls on this list lived in District 1 they would have
100% of their students coming from District 1. There is a demonstrated need. My
question is where do these girls live because that is where the need is.
Girls prep highlights their achievement as more proof that they are needed in
this community.
But let’s look at this comparison. Girls Prep does not have a comparable
population. They do not have a significant population of ELLs or special needs children.
They certainly do not have students in temporary housing. Their comparison and
claims are not accurate or meaningful. Let me make a more accurate and meaningful
comparison.
PS 184
Girls prep
poverty
73%
67% free and reduced(53%)
SE
more
ELLS
more
ELA
Math
ELA
Math
3rd
98%
100%
96%
100%
4th
96%
100%
92%
100%
All
staff/student
22:1
12:1
I would like to point out that a 12:1 staff to student ratio is the ratio for a self contained
special needs class.
So what Girls Prep has shown is that with a general education population staffed as
if it were a high needs self contained special education class that they serve “as a
model for what students can accomplish with the hard work and dedication of the school
community.”
Girls Prep cites “limited education opportunities” as another reason for expansion.
District 1 which has been a district offering school choice to parents offers a wide range
of choices at both the elementary and middle school level. We have traditional schools,
a Mandarin dual language school, schools with gifted classes, progressive education
schools, the school wide enrichment demonstration site for the city here at 188. We
have (MS)
Another stated need is that they are needed to help their students gain entry into
some of NYC’s best high schools. I know that we have students who are accepted to
Bard, to NEST, to Frank Sinatra, Talents Unlimited, Art and Design and ESCHS which
has an amazing record of getting over 90% of it’s students into college.
I question whether District 1 needs another middle school. Which is not to say I
question the need for a Girls singer gender middle school. I just don’t see the need for
it here in district 1.

By: Michael M.

Michael M. — Sat, 24 Oct 2009 00:44:24 +0000

KS,
Fine. Happy to meet in the middle. You know my main sticking points are the space wars on the local level, and the privatization concerns on the broader level.

By: KitchenSink

KitchenSink — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 21:38:27 +0000

Michael M., I disagree with your logic. What’s wrong with supporters putting their weight behind a loose coalition of community-based (and, admittedly, not-so-community based) organizations to make the whole movement stronger?

What you’re suggesting is akin, in my mind, to saying that SNCC, SCLC and the others should have stayed in their little nooks during the civil rights movement and not join forces with a larger entity, say the NAACP.

I would temper your last sentence (and then agree with you) by saying “some” or even “many” charters aren’t local-community-driven. Because some or even many clearly are!

By: Michael M.

Michael M. — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 20:41:14 +0000

MDOPODP,
Now that’s not fair, and whoever you are you know it. The subsequent comments (one by me and I’m no charter fan) cleared it up. Somewhat.

Still, it’s kind of hard for anyone to make the case that charters are local-community-driven when a) so much effort is put into making charters a broader movement, and b) charter-backers push back on local parents and local community leaders for noting (a).

By: Mona Davids outed- parent or DoE pawn?

Mona Davids outed- parent or DoE pawn? — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 20:03:14 +0000

There is a new comment on the post “Red Hook charter paves way out of P.S. 15,
but can’t say when”.
http://gothamschools.org/2009/09/18/red-hook-charter-paves-way-out-of-ps-15-but-cant-say-when/

Author: Marge
Comment:
Just to let everyone know, the NY Charter Parents Association website is
registered to the NYC Charter School Center, which has Joel Klein, Michael Duffy
and Geoffrey Canada on its board of directors, as well as a staff of 18 plus 2
consultants! (You can check whois.net to find out who any website is registered
to.)

See all comments on this post here:
http://gothamschools.org/2009/09/18/red-hook-charter-paves-way-out-of-ps-15-but-cant-say-when/#comments

By: Gia Rivers

Gia Rivers — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 15:20:24 +0000

@ Lisa – it is not true that GP has only attended one meeting! This year I have been to 3 – and I plan to attend in the future as well as many parents from GP. Everyone have a lovely weekend!

By: Lisa Donlan

Lisa Donlan — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 11:09:21 +0000

FYI- Girls Prep parents and staff have attended exactly one CEC meeting in the 5 years they have been hosted by public schools in the district, despite many many invitations. The one where they are asking DoE to find an additional 300 seats in existing schools for the "renewed" (but actually expanded) charter. So it can not be true that the talk about segregation originated with me or CEC. I encourage posters to stick with the facts to create a rich discussion where we can learn from each other.

By: Gia Rivers

Gia Rivers — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 18:06:03 +0000

@ Nereida ……. Halllelujah! Amen!….(round of applause)……

By: nereida martinez

nereida martinez — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 17:08:20 +0000

WOW, I just finished reading from Sept 30 to Oct 22 ,155 comments to see what is happening at my granddaughter school (Girls Prep) It seems that the board forgot what we really want, a well educated strong young lady that will someday become a leader in our community for all.

By: Han Z

Han Z — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 16:47:42 +0000

I am fortunate that for the last 25 years there are District 1 parents who’ve stepped up to leadership, and worked tirelessly to ensure choice and diversity among our schools for the children of District 1. Let’s keep our talk “accountable”. Personal attacks and asides have no place in honest debate.

By: Lisa Donlan

Lisa Donlan — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 16:22:28 +0000

To be clear- I did not throw the district office in the mix; we were presented the two fold space issue by OPP at our Sept 30th CEC meeting on “use of space”.

Feel free to ask Deborah Kurshan if she framed the conversation as a two pronged space issue: the Girsl Prep request and the District Office request.

As far as my constant use of the word segregation is concerned-
where is that coming from?
Where do you see/hear me use that word incessantly?
The only context I can recall is our district policy to promote diversity in and thus DEsegregate our schools via our controlled choice admissions policy.

But I would like to hear specifically what you have heard and when on this topic.

When we look at the special education students served we use the lens of serving high needs or at risk students, and do not think in terms of segregation so I wonder how you came to associate the two in your mind.

By: Gia Rivers

Gia Rivers — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 14:58:20 +0000

@ Han Z:

The word segregation is embedded in my vocabulary from hearing Lisa Donlan use it many a time when she would touch on many a subject at the CEC meetings concerning GP. Abnormal was used because when I was in school it was the word many of my friends who were shuffled off to Special Ed used to express the way the system made them feel and be seen in the eyes of the other kids. Being the civil and concerned parent (whether it be my child or someone elses) I will take back that word and use kids who need more instruction. Your comment about the parents who should be up in arms I agree with 100% and it should be made clear to them. From what they said at the last meeting they are under the impression (wonder where they got it from) that they have the funds but GP is in their way.
@ Lisa Donlan: When you explain the admin/confidentiality situation in writing it makes perfect sense but when you throw it in the mix of having smaller classrooms (which we have established there is no money for) you make it seem like GP is holding that office hostage….

By: Han Z

Han Z — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 12:28:57 +0000

Self contained classrooms in D1 elementary and middle schools, as well as D75 programs housed in D1 schools.

By: yomister

yomister — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 02:17:53 +0000

Han Z –

“It has been my pleasure to see and learn of a number of truly innovative programs that would set the pace for any general ed setting.”

And which innovative programs are these?

By: Han Z

Han Z — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 22:14:19 +0000

I’m not sure Ms. Rivers understands how special ed works, and instead chooses to use inflammatory words like “segregation” and “abnormal”. Students are assessed and placed in learning environments based on their individual needs. These needs are assessed and put into legal documents (Federal and State) which are called Individual Education Plans (IEPs) which specifically address what that child needs to grow, to learn and to progress. Sometimes, a determination is made that a child will best flourish in a small class setting, with no more than 12 students in a classroom, with one, two or more additional educational staff (teachers, paraprofessionals). These determinations are made by a team of professionals, educational and psychological, as well as the family of the student. I’ve worked in D1 schools for 6 years and I have never seen any adult staff member or educator treat students with IEPs differently than other students or treat them with disrespect. It has been my pleasure to see and learn of a number of truly innovative programs that would set the pace for any general ed setting. I am also happy to say that the dedicated and talented educators in D1 are looking at ways to to increase mainstreaming and diminish restriction. I am truly saddened by the perpetuation of stereotypes about special ed. It is a disservice to all children.

As for teachers and classroom sizes, at the same CEC meeting you refer to, the reps from CFE and Class Size Matters, pretty much spelled out that BloomKlein are misappropriating and diverting CFE funds, and every NYC public school parent should be up in arms, trying to get that money directed for its original purpose. And as for public money, the budgets of each NYC public school are posted online (http://schools.nyc.gov/AboutUs/funding/schoolbudgets/default.htm). Is there anyone out there who can provide a direct link to a public posting of a charter school budget, say Girls Prep??

By: Lisa Donlan

Lisa Donlan — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 15:27:37 +0000

Hi Gia,
I think you did not understand the statement I made at the Sept 30th CEC meeting. I, along with every member, was asked to respond to the DoE’s assertion that the District Office needs a new space (at the same time as GPC is looking for space to grow a middle school).

Currently there are 3 different offices- the District Family Advocate, the District Superintendent and the CEC- all housed in one large room. There is an issue of confidentiality for parents (and not administrators) who come into these offices with issues around their children’s safety, well being and academic success.
We have been petitioning the DoE for years on this issue- ever since the offices were moved together in 2004 or so at the start of mayoral control and the first reorganization away from districts.

As for the special ed issue that you raise, I am not qualified to respond to how a school decides to place a student in one environment or another. I do know that proportionally GPC does not serve even half of the number of special ed students as our district average, and that it serves no ELL students (12% of the district). Some would say that is a form of “segregation” in itself, but again, I leave the debate to others more qualified.

Yes, you are right. We need to, and do, make frequent request to reduce class size in our overcrowded classes. Despite specific funding to do so our schools often get assigned more and more students, undoing the hard work of principals to reduce class size.
Sometimes the DoE system does not count the D 75 students who are mainstreamed in our Gen Ed classes, sometimes students form failing schools transfer in by NCLB rules, and sometimes there is no rhyme or reason or explanation of why kids get crammed in to schools beyond the number the school admits.

We are glad that private funders can help GPC to offer a 12: 1 ratio of staff to students, and wish the same level funding were made available to every child in this city, as per the CFE lawsuit and findings.
Every child deserves the conditions of success that this DoE refuses to provide to our public schools. Instead they have reduced the teaching force by 6, 000 and increased their administration by 10,000. Totally unacceptable use of a tripled education budget- we agree.

By: Gia Rivers

Gia Rivers — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 15:02:16 +0000

@ Lisa Donlan does your district even have the money to hire more teachers so that you can ease overcrowding given you had the space? NO…the BOE cannot afford to hire more teachers so don’t try to make it seem like there is no space because of Girl’s Prep. While GP does not have an ELL or Special Education class SEGREGATED from the rest of the students as the BOE allows for public schools to do. BOE SEGREGATES students with special needs clustering them into an environment where they grow up accepting themselves as DIFFERENT, ABNORMAL and not being able to function in a regular setting. Well at GPC we don’t ISOLATE the kids who need special needs, but we work with them and let them know that they can function normally whether they have a learning disability or not – that someone is there to take that extra time to work with that student individually. GPC parents, staff and students pride themselves knowing that their roots at GPC are in District 1 and would love to remain a part of it. Like I said before you do not have the money to make classrooms smaller therefore you should be “attacking” the DOE for more funding. I remember you making a statement that said three admin staff were all holed up in one office talking about sensitive/confidential matters where one could hear the other. Well if they can’t follow confidentiality guidlines that I am sure the DOE implements they should be replaced, this was a weak point you made – what does that have to do with GPC? We need to focus on the kids not the admin staff…LOL