GothamSchools — daily independent reporting on NYC public schools

college prep

SAT scores are down but AP’s are up, in the city and state

New York City students followed statewide patterns on the SAT and AP college prep exams, according to College Board data released today.

We had a more diverse pool of test-takers than last year — more black and Hispanic students took both the SAT and AP exams, and more passed the AP; lower SAT scores on average since last year; and a higher (though still dismally low) number of students passing the AP exams.

The city Department of Education summed up the results in a PDF (embedded below the jump). I asked for a more specific breakdown — average scores from past years and average scores broken down by race — and will provide that when it arrives. You can read the national results here and the New York results here. (Would that we already had the forthcoming IBO education team to give us the straight story from the get-go!)
NYC College Board Results 2009

  • CarolineSF

    It’s not valid to make judgments based on AP and SAT scores, at all — it simply shouldn’t be done. They’re voluntary tests formerly taken only by the elite; today, a much wider cross-section of students are encouraged to take them. In fact, schools are likely to push as many students as possible to take AP tests because that raises their standing in Newsweek’s invalid, absurd and corrupt annual high school rankings.

    Statisticians have terminology for this whole principle that I can’t remember — the notion that the wider a cross-section of students take the voluntary tests, the less valid it is to make judgments based on the outcomes. It’s so wrong and so invalid to treat the results as though they are similar to required standardized tests that I’m making a mission of objecting every time. This is a bad thing and the press shouldn’t do it. It misleads the readers, and misleading readers is a mortal sin.

  • CarolineSF

    Here you go — Simpson’s Paradox.

    “…statisticians call it Simpson’s paradox: The average can change in one direction while all the subgroups change in the opposite direction if proportions among the subgroups are changing. Early in the period studied, only top students took the test. But during those twenty years, the pool of test takers expanded to include many lower-ranked students. Because the proportion of top students to all students was shrinking, the scores inevitably dropped. That decline signified not failure but rather progress toward what had been a national goal: extending educational opportunities to a broader range of the population.”

    This definition is from a long article by Tamim Ansary on Edutopia, which relates how Sandia Laboratories did a study based purely on scientific analysis, debunking the long-held notion that American public education is declining, but the study was suppressed by the George H.W. Bush administration due to the political need to promote the notion that U.S. public schools are failing.

  • http://ednotesonline.blogspot.com/ Norm

    Good points Caroline. Don’t forget the role the AFT/UFT’s Al Shanker played in promoting the Nation at Risk and all the follow-up that leads right to the Obama ed policies today.

  • Andrew Wolf

    I realize that we cannot make direct links from one set of tests to another, but it would seem to me that after years and years of soaring state scores, the rising tide would begin to lift SOME boats. It seems that the tide of inflated local scores is having the opposite effect – sinking the boat of knowledge and achievement.

  • Pogue

    It’s obviously time to relieve Admiral Bloomberg and First Mate Klein of their duties. Maybe we could give The Professor, any professor, someone with an understanding of children and education, a shot at the helm.

  • Jeff S

    Of course the exams make valid points….they show New York State exams are dumbed down and the “rising” scores that Mr. Klein loves to point to in order to show that despite his lack of qualifications for the job, the schools have improved under his watch.

    He’ll point to the rising passing rates on the Algebra regents exam, for example but won’t tell you that years ago you need 65% of the credit to achieve a passing score…today you need 34% of the credit to be considered to have passed.

    But then again, if that ever became public people would stop drinking Klein’s kool aid. The SAT scores are just another indication that Klein has to go.

  • http://www.classsizematters.org Leonie Haimson

    I’m less interested in the no. of test takers in each demographic group or the no. that passed than in the percentages of the total student population; did they give that info?

  • http://www.specialeducationmuckraker.com Dee Alpert

    The drop in SAT scores makes perfect sense if you give credence to the widespread anecdotal rumors that bogus “credit recovery” scams are in full force and/or that schools which grade their own students’ Regents exams inflate scores.

    NYC DOE’s press spin, i.e., that scores are lower because more black and Hispanic kids are taking the SAT tests, is nothing short of reprehensible. The increase in black and Hispanic kids’ graduation rates in NYC – if they are to be believed – appears to be the result of a perverse kind of social promotion. They get promoted all right, with meaningless diplomas in hand, right out of school entirely. But what, pray tell, is the purpose of increasing minority students’ graduation rates if their underlying skills haven’t been upgraded in sync?

    So now the Tweed spinmeisters crow because they’re giving the current generation of minority NYC high school graduates, who can mostly only get hired low-paying jobs as custodians, janitors, waiters and hairdressers because they really can’t read or do math very well, high school diplomas that will make nice wallpaper on the inside of their work lockers, but do precious little else for them?

    What a colossal fraud! And what a miserable thing to do to these nice black and Hispanic kids who have summoned the motivation and gumption to take the SATs in the first place.

    No wonder the NYC DOE has ceased its practice of publishing individual high schools’ SAT scores. Seems like a lot of them may really be Potemkin Villages. Let’s all push for more economic stimulus money for the CUNY community colleges’ remedial programs.

  • Dissenter

    Dee you are reading racism into this argument where it doesn’t belong. The fact is, there are THOUSANDS of minority students in NYC who are taking the PSAT/SAT for the first time. These are students who had not been previously allowed/encouraged to take the test. What? did you expect them to get perfect scores their first time taking it? Of course their scores are going to be low, especially if you think of the fact that comparable middle class/upper middle class families spend thousands of dollars on Kaplan/SCORE etc test prep programs for their kids. Of course, no one seems to care that students prep for the SAT, but they seem to have a huge problem with kids in lower grades being prepped for state exams. Anyway, given that more and more kids are being encouraged to take the PSAT/SAT for the first time (in some schools 100% of the kids, even special ed students, are taking the test) it is actually good news the scores are flat.

  • http://. Laura

    I totally agree with dissenter. Not to mention that a couple of points off the mean score is probably not statistically significant in terms of measuring performance, whereas the increase in the number of black and hispanic students (particularly given population trends Elizabeth cites elsewhere in the blog) is noteworthy. PSAT scores are also largely unchanged (I’d guess those #s are statistically insignificant as well) whle they’ve had a 2.6% increase in test takers despite declining enrollment. And, that’s probably after several years of increased # of test takers because of the free PSAT tests kids can take through the DOE. I would be interested to see test scores and number of test takers over the past several years, because I work in a high-need high school and in my experience a broader pool has been taking both the PSAT and the SAT. The key thing is not that there are more black and hispanic kids taking the test (though that’s a fact) it’s that the additional kids are lower-achieving than the pool of students that traditionally took the exam — the higher-achieving kids always took it because it’s a prerequisite for college admissions and they were college bound. So if scores are flat in that context, it’s a positive thing.

Tips, questions, feedback?

Contact us at .

Follow GothamSchools

RSS

Feb. 10: You’re invited!

Chalk It Up

Recent Comments

45 comments so far today

Our Twitter Updates

  • @SchoolBook: Manhattan rep @PSulliv and mayoral appointee Lisette Nieves get into an argument she tells him to get off his "soapbox” 3 mins ago
  • Mayoral appointee Lisette nieves chimes in on an increasingly irate @PSulliv she says he's being rude. 3 mins ago
  • Shael on Washington IrVing. We named new leadership, shrunk size and saw slow progress. 4yrs ago, there were 1000 kids, just 226 last yr., 6 mins ago
  • Legacy received 35 over the counter students, out of 300 total. Paymon rouhanifard says that's abt the avg. for schools in its peer group 13 mins ago
  • RT @lindseychrist: As panel debates school closures, the press (& press officers) slump in a pile in orchestra pit http://t.co/8DlkllxJ 15 mins ago
  • More updates...

Archives

February 2012
M T W T F S S
« Jan  
 12345
6789101112
13141516171819
20212223242526
272829  
?>