Comments on: Three Peas in a Pod

By: john thompson

john thompson — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:34:35 +0000

I don’t write about social promotion because I don’t have an opinion on it. But I do have an educated opinion on the Chicago Schools Consortium. I’d think long and hard before rejecting their wisdom. And I do have an opinion on saying one thing and doing another. I have an opinion on the Truthieness in education exemplified by data-driven “reformers.” I have an opinion about the formal ending of social promotion, replacing it with nonstop pressure just to “pass on” students after complying with some fig leafs.

We do have to fear stigma. But we must also fear dishonesty.

So, I fearfully think we should provide as many interventions as possible while listening to the research, especially when we are talking about low academic performance. When students reach a certain age, and their absenteeism and behavior gets to a point, however, we must yield to reality. Then I’d invest in Rolls Royce-quality Accelerated Middle Schools. When that was unsuccessful I’d invest in dropout recovery and community colleges, and digital means of outreach. I would never give up on troubled students. At a certain point, as long as we are talking about realistic as opposed to utopian levels of funding, I’d give up on social promotion of students who are emotionally incapable of functioning in regular secondary classes. But I’d never lie and claim that I feel comfortable about it, much less stick my head in the sand like Bloom/Klein.

By: insiderknowledge

insiderknowledge — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 04:25:46 +0000

Well ceolaf I think we cannot fear the stigma..I think when we worry about feelings then policy that deals with the realities of the situation get lost in the shuffle. We all want and believe our kids have the ability to atain excellence in education but it is not reality. Some students struggle because well we are all not equally as smart. That is just plain truth. Even among A students some are better then others. This is a troubling trend in our society.. that we cannot accept that we are not equal so we strive for parity. It takes an astute parent to realize that their child may need extra help and we have to make sure that instead of putting our heads in the sand we offer that help. It surely is not about passing a watered down test or retaining students because it feels right.. It must done right.

By: Michael M.

Michael M. — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 04:06:45 +0000

This is like the old debate over subliminal advertising. Who cares if it sells product? From the point of view of the ad agency, it sells…. ad campaigns.

Similarly, who cares if test-based promotion works? It’s a selling point of… a political campaign.

By: ceolaf

ceolaf — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 03:35:13 +0000

InsiderKnowledge,

I don’t have a problem with vocational education, provided it is high quality and not just a dumping ground.

It’s not even, to be honest, that I am that much in favor of social promotion. It’s that that alternative at hand is worse, and we *already* know it is worse.

The ideal answer — one that meets your fantasy and mine — is a kind of intervention specially helps these students. Something that that both addresses their skill deficits and provides the kinds of supports and encouragements that can keep them invested in schooling and education. But I don’t know if such a thing is even possible? How would such a program not be stigmatizing?

I have my educational fantasies, too. But educational policy needs to be based on more than fantasies — even mine.

By: insiderknowledge

insiderknowledge — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 02:14:25 +0000

You know ceolaf i battled pretty hard against you the past couple of days but after reading this article I’m willing to come over to your side.. Me and my fantasy vocational education track.

By: ceolaf

ceolaf — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 23:10:12 +0000

This is another example why Stephen Colbert’s satire is so brilliant. In his first show he newly defined “truthiness,” the sense that something *feels* true, regardless of whether it *is* true.

Obviously, Colbert has been very funny with the whole truthiness things, but the brilliance of the satire is that it is based on what we really see. It was easy to mock President Bush for his belief in truthiness, but Mayor Bloomberg is a different sort of politican. He projects intelligence and compentence, and the electorate is quite convinced that he makes good decisions.

In this case, however, we have a “facts be damned” approach. It’s just obvious that social promotion hurts student achievement. It *feels* true. We don’t need studies to tell us that, and that studies that do are not important.