Comments on: Social promotion’s effect in New York City still largely unknown http://gothamschools.org/2009/08/10/social-promotions-effect-in-new-york-city-still-largely-unknown/ Fri, 10 Feb 2012 05:27:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Smith http://gothamschools.org/2009/08/10/social-promotions-effect-in-new-york-city-still-largely-unknown/comment-page-1/#comment-169587 Smith Wed, 12 Aug 2009 05:18:33 +0000 http://gothamschools.org/?p=20577#comment-169587 We seem to refer only to elementary and junior high students when we use the term "social promotion". Is there a different term for when you work in one of the new small schools and you have to give a failing kid a 65 in order to avoid becoming a target? We seem to refer only to elementary and junior high students when we use the term “social promotion”. Is there a different term for when you work in one of the new small schools and you have to give a failing kid a 65 in order to avoid becoming a target?

]]> By: Leonie Haimson http://gothamschools.org/2009/08/10/social-promotions-effect-in-new-york-city-still-largely-unknown/comment-page-1/#comment-169460 Leonie Haimson Wed, 12 Aug 2009 00:43:16 +0000 http://gothamschools.org/?p=20577#comment-169460 not surprisingly, one of the items the DOE cut in their recent budget were the planned new round of surveys of school staff re grade retention -- to be included in the RAND report. not surprisingly, one of the items the DOE cut in their recent budget were the planned new round of surveys of school staff re grade retention — to be included in the RAND report.

]]> By: Patrick J. Sullivan http://gothamschools.org/2009/08/10/social-promotions-effect-in-new-york-city-still-largely-unknown/comment-page-1/#comment-169451 Patrick J. Sullivan Wed, 12 Aug 2009 00:40:32 +0000 http://gothamschools.org/?p=20577#comment-169451 I've read all the interim reports published over the last three years. Many individual parts of the study, such as surveys of principals to understand the policy, have been completed for years. It makes no sense to continue to suppress these studies. As for the longitudinal study, the DOE said August 2009, RAND said August 2009 and the DOE again admitted they had received the results a few months ago. If it's not ready (which I doubt), then get it finished so we can learn what is working or not, then fix the policy before extending it. Simple enough. I’ve read all the interim reports published over the last three years. Many individual parts of the study, such as surveys of principals to understand the policy, have been completed for years. It makes no sense to continue to suppress these studies.

As for the longitudinal study, the DOE said August 2009, RAND said August 2009 and the DOE again admitted they had received the results a few months ago. If it’s not ready (which I doubt), then get it finished so we can learn what is working or not, then fix the policy before extending it. Simple enough.

]]> By: Michael M. http://gothamschools.org/2009/08/10/social-promotions-effect-in-new-york-city-still-largely-unknown/comment-page-1/#comment-169437 Michael M. Wed, 12 Aug 2009 00:28:06 +0000 http://gothamschools.org/?p=20577#comment-169437 More like... "I'm Getting Annointed in November." More like… “I’m Getting Annointed in November.”

]]> By: Ellen McHugh http://gothamschools.org/2009/08/10/social-promotions-effect-in-new-york-city-still-largely-unknown/comment-page-1/#comment-169297 Ellen McHugh Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:43:44 +0000 http://gothamschools.org/?p=20577#comment-169297 Nah, how about this....you tell your boss you will have something to him, then you tell your boss you won't, then you tell your boss it's coming,then you tellyour boss it's really coming, then your boss tells you, put up or go home. That's how it works in the business world, why can't we make education more like the business world (with apologies to Lerner and Lowe's My Fair Lady, Why Can't a Woman be More Like a Man?) Nah, how about this….you tell your boss you will have something to him, then you tell your boss you won’t, then you tell your boss it’s coming,then you tellyour boss it’s really coming, then your boss tells you, put up or go home.
That’s how it works in the business world, why can’t we make education more like the business world (with apologies to Lerner and Lowe’s My Fair Lady, Why Can’t a Woman be More Like a Man?)

]]> By: Michael M. http://gothamschools.org/2009/08/10/social-promotions-effect-in-new-york-city-still-largely-unknown/comment-page-1/#comment-169222 Michael M. Tue, 11 Aug 2009 19:51:48 +0000 http://gothamschools.org/?p=20577#comment-169222 Patrick, Allow me... Dissenter, Please note the RAND study was originally slated for release in August. It's not at all unreasonable to ponder the reasons for the delay. Sheesh. Wouldn't you want a fully informed electorate PRIOR to the election? P.S. Ya might want to rework that opening either-or, so it's not either-either. Patrick,
Allow me…

Dissenter,
Please note the RAND study was originally slated for release in August. It’s not at all unreasonable to ponder the reasons for the delay. Sheesh.

Wouldn’t you want a fully informed electorate PRIOR to the election?

P.S. Ya might want to rework that opening either-or, so it’s not either-either.

]]> By: Dissenter http://gothamschools.org/2009/08/10/social-promotions-effect-in-new-york-city-still-largely-unknown/comment-page-1/#comment-169189 Dissenter Tue, 11 Aug 2009 16:27:16 +0000 http://gothamschools.org/?p=20577#comment-169189 Patrick would you prefer an accurate and thorough study or one that is released when it's complete? I'm sure that you would not want such a long range study released just to make a date as opposed to being released by RAND because it is ready to be released. Why is your approach to things always a conspiratorial (and paranoid) one, always assuming the worst? For someone who represents all of Manhattan school parents, I find this very troubling. Patrick would you prefer an accurate and thorough study or one that is released when it’s complete? I’m sure that you would not want such a long range study released just to make a date as opposed to being released by RAND because it is ready to be released. Why is your approach to things always a conspiratorial (and paranoid) one, always assuming the worst? For someone who represents all of Manhattan school parents, I find this very troubling.

]]> By: Michael M. http://gothamschools.org/2009/08/10/social-promotions-effect-in-new-york-city-still-largely-unknown/comment-page-1/#comment-169118 Michael M. Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:59:34 +0000 http://gothamschools.org/?p=20577#comment-169118 Too much stick, not enough carrot. Why not just lay on some more "DOE irony-alert" and call it a "War on Stupidity?" No, Mr. Mayor, what's "mean and cruel" is holding back Level 1 kids with NO PLAN WHATSOEVER to raise them to a Level THREE. "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." -- Albert Einstein Too much stick, not enough carrot. Why not just lay on some more “DOE irony-alert” and call it a “War on Stupidity?”

No, Mr. Mayor, what’s “mean and cruel” is holding back Level 1 kids with NO PLAN WHATSOEVER to raise them to a Level THREE.

“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”
– Albert Einstein

]]> By: Michael M. http://gothamschools.org/2009/08/10/social-promotions-effect-in-new-york-city-still-largely-unknown/comment-page-1/#comment-169116 Michael M. Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:53:22 +0000 http://gothamschools.org/?p=20577#comment-169116 Re "“If we went immediately to Level 3, so many kids would be held back that we’d be overwhelmed,” he [Bloomberg] said." Suggested correction: "If we went immediately to Level 3, so many kids would be held back that people would question my success as the 'Education Mayor.'" Much more better. Re ““If we went immediately to Level 3, so many kids would be held back that we’d be overwhelmed,” he [Bloomberg] said.”

Suggested correction: “If we went immediately to Level 3, so many kids would be held back that people would question my success as the ‘Education Mayor.’”

Much more better.

]]> By: Patrick J. Sullivan http://gothamschools.org/2009/08/10/social-promotions-effect-in-new-york-city-still-largely-unknown/comment-page-1/#comment-169083 Patrick J. Sullivan Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:20:48 +0000 http://gothamschools.org/?p=20577#comment-169083 The briefing document distributed to Panel members on the policy said August 2009. The briefing document distributed to Panel members on the policy said August 2009.

]]> By: Caroline http://gothamschools.org/2009/08/10/social-promotions-effect-in-new-york-city-still-largely-unknown/comment-page-1/#comment-168966 Caroline Tue, 11 Aug 2009 05:57:49 +0000 http://gothamschools.org/?p=20577#comment-168966 I observed a long delay in the release of a RAND study on another education issue I was following closely -- that one was Edison Schools, the once-hailed, now-discredited, NYC-based for-profit school management company. An insider told me the delay (at least two years) was due to protracted negotiations over the final version of the study, which showed the usual lame "mixed results" for Edison. Edison had paid for the study. While I trust RAND's integrity (disclosure that a relative is a researcher for RAND, though not in education), draw your own conclusions. I observed a long delay in the release of a RAND study on another education issue I was following closely — that one was Edison Schools, the once-hailed, now-discredited, NYC-based for-profit school management company. An insider told me the delay (at least two years) was due to protracted negotiations over the final version of the study, which showed the usual lame “mixed results” for Edison. Edison had paid for the study. While I trust RAND’s integrity (disclosure that a relative is a researcher for RAND, though not in education), draw your own conclusions.

]]> By: Elizabeth Green http://gothamschools.org/2009/08/10/social-promotions-effect-in-new-york-city-still-largely-unknown/comment-page-1/#comment-168912 Elizabeth Green Tue, 11 Aug 2009 03:24:52 +0000 http://gothamschools.org/?p=20577#comment-168912 Thanks for that reminder Patrick. When did they say August 2009? I checked my story from that time and just saw 2009 - http://www.nysun.com/new-york/bronx-manhattan-presidents-back-social-promotion/73005/ Thanks for that reminder Patrick. When did they say August 2009? I checked my story from that time and just saw 2009 – http://www.nysun.com/new-york/bronx-manhattan-presidents-back-social-promotion/73005/

]]> By: Patrick J. Sullivan http://gothamschools.org/2009/08/10/social-promotions-effect-in-new-york-city-still-largely-unknown/comment-page-1/#comment-168892 Patrick J. Sullivan Tue, 11 Aug 2009 02:44:24 +0000 http://gothamschools.org/?p=20577#comment-168892 When we voted on the 8th grade retention policy last year they said the release date for the RAND study was August 2009. Now it is "sometime this fall". Would that happen to be "sometime after the election this fall?" What are they hiding? When we voted on the 8th grade retention policy last year they said the release date for the RAND study was August 2009. Now it is “sometime this fall”. Would that happen to be “sometime after the election this fall?” What are they hiding?

]]> By: Smith http://gothamschools.org/2009/08/10/social-promotions-effect-in-new-york-city-still-largely-unknown/comment-page-1/#comment-168872 Smith Tue, 11 Aug 2009 01:59:03 +0000 http://gothamschools.org/?p=20577#comment-168872 We shouldn't refer to a ban on social promotion if one doesn't exist. When I taught seventh grade all the students who failed all their classes were passed on to eighth grade because they received "2's" on the state ELA test. But here's my question: In this case the AP said the school had the choice whether or not to pass the 2's but had to pass the kid with a 3. Is this correct? Our kids were passed because the school wanted to get rid of them as soon as possible. That's social promotion just as it existed before Bloomberg. We shouldn’t refer to a ban on social promotion if one doesn’t exist. When I taught seventh grade all the students who failed all their classes were passed on to eighth grade because they received “2′s” on the state ELA test. But here’s my question: In this case the AP said the school had the choice whether or not to pass the 2′s but had to pass the kid with a 3. Is this correct? Our kids were passed because the school wanted to get rid of them as soon as possible. That’s social promotion just as it existed before Bloomberg.

]]> By: Leonie Haimson http://gothamschools.org/2009/08/10/social-promotions-effect-in-new-york-city-still-largely-unknown/comment-page-1/#comment-168866 Leonie Haimson Tue, 11 Aug 2009 01:53:14 +0000 http://gothamschools.org/?p=20577#comment-168866 The PEP should not vote on this policy until the RAND findings are released to the public. The PEP should not vote on this policy until the RAND findings are released to the public.

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