More Equal than Others

July 30, 2009

Overcrowding comes to city schools for various reasons. In my school, our reputation makes kids want to come, we have magnet programs like JROTC that attract kids from near and far, and there’s never been a cap on enrollment. Neighborhood schools like PS 123 don’t get the opportunity to grow and expand because other schools are simply placed into whatever vacant spaces they may have. In fact, as Juan Gonzalez reported, space they’d actually been using was commandeered by a charter school chain. It now appears Eva Moskowitz’s Harlem Success Academy will be taking that space permanently.

PS 123 has gone from an F-rated school to a B-rated school, and you’d think that would merit some encouragement from the Department of Education. You’d be mistaken. Rather than expand upon the progress they’ve made, the building that houses PS 123 has become a civics lesson for all who teach and study there—a newly designed two-tier education system. 55 years ago, Brown v. Board of Education stated, “separate educational facilities are inherently unequal.” At PS 123, separate educational facilities can be found within the same school building.

In fact, some families have one kid in 123, and another in HSA. But it’s pretty clear to all that the schools are different. For one thing, all HSA classrooms are painted and renovated before kids even attend. A few weeks ago, protesters questioned why the whole school couldn’t be painted, rather than just the HSA section. You have to wonder why an administration that prides itself on placing “children first” would allow so many children to be second priority.

HSA classrooms are air-conditioned. They are equipped with 21st-century technology, like smartboards and overhead projectors. Parents tell me they get new furniture and carpets. You have to wonder how PS 123 kids feel, seeing what the charter kids get. You don’t need to wonder what parents want—they want their kids to study under the best possible conditions, and HSA is an in-your-face reminder just what lottery winners can get.

Even the bathrooms are renovated. HSA kids get new furniture in the bathrooms, including chairs, as well as potpourri. I’m not sure why they need chairs in the bathrooms, but I think the potpourri is a nice touch. Having seen scores of public school bathrooms that would turn your stomach, I think Ms. Moskowitz is onto something.

At a July 20th rally at PS 123, several speakers stated that the DoE supplied Ms. Moskowitz with a list of students who’d scored 3s and 4s on citywide tests. Those students were then sent invitations to apply. A parent compared HSA and PS 123 to the plantation and the big house—some get first-class treatment while others toil away. And some kids, apparently, watch their siblings in the big house while they’re stuck in the plantation.

It’s one thing to allow innovative charters to offer kids courses of study they may not get in neighborhood schools. It’s quite another to systematically starve public schools of resources while making a blatant show of what charter schools get. It’s hard to see how PS 123 staff and students can stay inspired and focused on improvement when they’re so clearly receiving fewer resources and opportunities than their neighbor. It must be particularly infuriating to know that kids who don’t work out at HSA will quite possibly be bounced right back into PS 123—which gets the test scores, the expenses, and whatever undesirable behavior that caused the kids to be transferred, while HSA keeps the funding.

At the June 20th rally, I spoke with an HSA parent who felt the controversy was not necessary. He said there were vacant school buildings nearby, and that the city denied them to Ms. Moskowitz, thus forcing her to move into PS 123. Perhaps if the city had allowed her to use those buildings, there would not be so much unrest floating around this school. Is the Department of Education trying to make parents feel that neighborhood schools are second-class institutions?

I don’t begrudge the kids in HSA their classrooms or learning conditions. If smartboards help them, if air-conditioners make them more comfortable, if catered snacks from Fresh Direct keep them focused, fine. I only wonder why PS 123 kids can’t have the same. I also wonder, from my vantage point in a trailer well past its expiration date, why my kids can’t have decent learning conditions either.

Because, frankly, all kids should have decent learning conditions—whether or not they happen to win charter lotteries.

Arthur Goldstein teaches English as a Second Language at Francis Lewis High School in Queens. He is also the school’s UFT chapter leader.

101 Comments

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Miss Eyre
July 30th, 2009 9:58 am

You’ve hit the nail on the head here. Sure, charter schools can provide wonderful things for children, which leads me to wonder why they can’t be provided for all children. In this post you also touch on the “duh” moment we should all be having with charters: Charters skim the best-prepared children with the most involved children off the top of troubled neighborhoods, and then tout their test scores as the result of some charter school miracle? Not so much. It’s hardly a surprise or a miracle that well-motivated children with involved families in schools with high and exacting behavior standards do well.
What should give us all pause is exactly the system that Mr. Goldstein points out here: a two-tiered system that is used to then point out the supposed deficiencies in regular public schools, specifically deficiencies with teachers, when the deck is stacked against regular public schools from Day One. Charters get more money, better facilities, and wide and, from what I can tell, unchecked ability to chuck out students who do not measure up in terms of behavior or performance.
Miss Cellania
July 30th, 2009 9:59 am

Your title from Animal Farm is so apt. This is a ridiculous situation that too few people understand.
Mamacita
July 30th, 2009 10:28 am

Unbelievable. I believe it, but it’s unbelievable.

Actually, “criminal” might be a better word.

These people are criminals, and the students are their victims. As are the teachers.

I’m sorry for it all. I truly believe there is a special circle of Hell reserved for the administrations of the New York schools.

Heh, administration will feel right at home in Hell, seeing as how they’re all Spawn of Satan anyhow. Sigh. I wonder how they can even sleep at night with the knowledge of what they are and what they do.
JS
July 30th, 2009 12:28 pm

Sharing a school building with another school always causes problems. For about 20 years, my elementary school has shared its building with “an alternative school”; this is not a special needs school, but is similar to a charter except it get all its money from the same sources as public schools and is run by the BOE/DOE.

From the beginning the District Superintendent was not honest with us about this new and then small school that was coming into our building.

At first children were chosen using a process including interviews of the children and parents. The families had to “fit the school’s mission.” Now they do a lottery, but they still want families to fit their “mission.” And if the child/family do not fit, it is strongly suggested that they find a school which will suit them better. Some of those children have been bounced to us.

They threw out furniture that was better than what we were using, and replaced it with new furniture. Now their rooms are air conditioned. In the early years of sharing the building, our 5th and 6th grade children called the alternative school “the White School.”

Each year we struggle over shared space. Each year they ask for more rooms. We even struggle over the use of shared space –gym, auditorium, playground, even lunchtimes. Guess which school wins repeatedly! 20 years ago our Chapter Leader even warned that it would be a case of the tenant eventually taking over the entire building.

Throughout the years, there have also been questions about equitable funding of the 2 schools, especially which school pays for the services which were shared, such as maintenance and shared personnel.
Michael M.
July 30th, 2009 1:17 pm

Re “At a July 20th rally at PS 123, several speakers stated that the DoE supplied Ms. Moskowitz with a list of students who’d scored 3s and 4s on citywide tests. Those students were then sent invitations to apply.”

If true, so much for the “charters don’t cream” school of spin.
Michael M.
July 30th, 2009 1:25 pm

1) Any word on the class sizes — or the adult:student ratios — of PS 123 and HSA?

2) I would most welcome an official DOE response, an office HSA response, and an official PS 123 (as opposed to DOE) response to this excellent essay.
yomister
July 30th, 2009 2:31 pm

Just one point I’d like to interject with…

Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka did, of course, state that separate education facilities are inherently unequal. However, Warren followed that statement by affirming that segregation, in and of itself, was a deprivation of the equal protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.

“We conclude that in the field of public education the doctrine of “separate but equal” has no place. Separate educational facilities are inherently unequal. Therefore, we hold that the plaintiffs and others similarly situated for whom the actions have been brought are, BY REASON OF THE SEGREGATION COMPLAINED OF, deprived of the equal protection of the laws guaranteed by the Fourteenth Amendment.”

This does not apply to the matter at HSA and PS 123. No students have been segregated on the basis of race and provided with separate educational facilities by a government agency.

That said, charter schools receive no facility funding from the state. It is entirely at the discretion of the DOE to provide space to a charter school, and I believe that HSA has handled the matter in the worst possible manner. Gratitude and humility would have been the appropriate response.

(And for the record, I do support charter schools)
Michael M.
July 30th, 2009 3:01 pm

Brown v BofE doesn’t care HOW the segregation occured — “de facto” or “de jure” — just that it needs to be remedied. At least that’s the common understanding.

To my eye, the “segregation complained of” is about the situation, not its cause, let alone the intent thereof.
Carol
July 30th, 2009 5:38 pm

Another great piece by this author!! It’s one thing hearing the lies in the campaign ads and another thing living with the reality of mayoral control. This is pure segregation in its ugliest form.
Ray D.
July 30th, 2009 6:04 pm

I’m sorry, but Brown v. Bd. of Ed. was about racial segregation. Segregation by economic class or academic ability has sadly always been part of the public school system, here in NYC and, I suspect, in California as well. Say what you wish about the HSA/123 situation, but there is a long history of much uglier segregation in the NYC public school system - gerrymandered school zones, district lines and “de jure” selection criteria which lead to clear racial segregation, which is not the case at HSA/123.
Carol
July 30th, 2009 11:24 pm

To declare that the school should show gratitude when they in fact are not benefiting is silly. These students are forced to sit in classrooms with crumbling walls, not enough desks, supplies or computers and bathrooms with no running water. It seems to me that you should not create a separate school within a school and add insult to injury by rewarding the charter school students with a better environment. The condition of a classroom says a lot about how the mayor and the DoE care for the well-being of public school students. Many are taught in trailers that are falling apart. That’s unfair.

Charters should have their own building and not infringe on the classrooms of another school that can be used for science, art, and music and technology.
Jacob
July 31st, 2009 12:04 pm

I also agree that your school shouldn’t have to share space with a charter, but where else should the charter be located? Also I wonder if the charter was able to do these renovations because they were able to use their resources more effectivlly? I’m not suggesting that your school doesn’t know how to use its resources, only that the charter has more flexibility in how it uses its money.

Some will say that the money for these renovations comes from outside sources such as large evil corporate philanthropies. This may be true. But, if your school was willing to embrace more outcomes based accountability, don’t you think that this money could be available to you as well? However, even if it were available would you be able to use it or would DOE be responsible for spending it. This comment is rambling so i’ll stop now.
Jacob
July 31st, 2009 2:43 pm

also hearing something at a rally is hardly evidence… On the other hand, this is a blog so I guess anything goes
KitchenSink
July 31st, 2009 5:29 pm

Any public school can apply to convert to charter status, and thereby gain that same level of flexibility with spending (and, apparently, lavish monetary gifts from the evil corporations…).
Cahill Moorman
July 31st, 2009 6:09 pm

It seems odd to me that blame is being placed on HSA because of poor conditions at PS 123. This is only the second year for HSA II, the poor conditions of PS 123 existed long before HSA arrived in the building. HSA doesn’t have nicer bathrooms, better technology, and more pleasing paint jobs at the expense of PS 123. HSA has the aforementioned “amenities” because administrators are not forced to navigate the DOE bureaucracy, nor a Union negotiation, in order to get a light fixture replaced or a hallway painted.

Instead of chastising HSA for managing resources effectively, the target needs to be on the back of the DOE.

(It should also be noted that the only reason HSA is in PS 123 this year is because the UFT sued to keep PS 194, a failing school with dismal enrollment numbers, open.)
Arthur Goldstein
July 31st, 2009 7:20 pm

Cahill,

I’m certain you’re correct about the conditions at PS 123 predating HSA’s arrival. I also agree that such conditions are emblematic of DoE dysfunction. I work in conditions that are quite possibly worse than PS 123 kids see every day, and you’re absolutely right that the DoE should correct them.

I don’t believe unions are preventing Tweed from replacing the outdated trailers at my school or others. I don’t believe unions are forcing Tweed to send kids to study in half-classrooms, closets, or corners of cafeterias, even in bathrooms, and it behooves them to remedy situations like these.

I find it unacceptable that while my school and many others are stuffed well beyond capacity, with no remedy in sight, the DoE goes out of its way to find space for charters. For neighborhood schools it’s a Catch 22. Do well and you’re filled way beyond capacity. Do poorly and you close. Have extra space and a small school or charter is quickly dispatched to take it, and perhaps take space you’re using as well.
Michael M.
July 31st, 2009 9:05 pm

AG,
Great essay; I should have said so earlier.

Re last comment: Sounds like Catch 44.
Bob v. P.
August 1st, 2009 9:10 am

Thank you for writing this. I think it deserves attention.
Schoolgal
August 1st, 2009 10:50 am

It’s interesting that the many comments here seem to have blinders on when it comes to financing the repair of a school. That responsibility falls on the mayor and not the school. But this mayor wants more schools to be turned into charters so he can wash his hands of the whole public school system. As for space, the mayor shouldn’t turn over schools where space is needed by the students of that school. But that’s what he does. With the amount of available office space in the city (some city owned) and given the financial resources charters have, space can be found. But when the agenda is to ruin public education, that’s not going to happen. I do believe Green-Dot was the only charter to offer repairs to the school that houses them proving that charters and public schools can work together if the agreement is mutual. As for HSA, I seem to recall reading reports that it has problems keeping teachers and administrators. Having a revolving door of teachers and principals cannot be good for any school, but when it happens in a charter that says a lot about the level of professionalism at that school.
norm
August 2nd, 2009 10:20 pm

Jacob’s comment. “But, if your school was willing to embrace more outcomes based accountability, don’t you think that this money could be available to you as well?” makes it seem that somehow the school is not willing to embrace accountability outcomes when in fact they have no choice since BloomKlein is in charge of the school and pays an enormous staff of accountability people. The pro charter people love BloomKlein but somehow manage to separate the school from the people in charge of the system. Not that I accept your premise about accountability outcomes since there is no accountabilty when the outcome of BloomKlein mismanagement is kids being forced to learn in broom closets.

For some interesting accountabily watch the video on Arne Duncan’s Chicago on Ed Notes where the entire mess of 14 years of market-based mayoral control is beginning to unravel.
Ken
August 3rd, 2009 10:58 am

I did a little research on Arthur’s statement:

“At a July 20th rally at PS 123, several speakers stated that the DoE supplied Ms. Moskowitz with a list of students who’d scored 3s and 4s on citywide tests. Those students were then sent invitations to apply.”

Harlem Success only accepts applications for K through 2 and tests aren’t given until the 3rd grade, so this claim seems logically impossible.

Arthur, did you do any research on this beyond repeating the claims of protesters? Am I missing something?
norm
August 3rd, 2009 1:04 pm

Ken,

Isn’t there a big controversy over testing of kindergarten kids? They may not give multiple choice standardized type tests but there are certainly tests being given to kids in grades 1 and 2.
Ken
August 3rd, 2009 1:20 pm

Hey Norm,

I assume “a list of students who’d scored 3s and 4s on citywide tests” refers to the state exams that are given starting in 3rd grade. Do you think this quote refers to some other test given to kids in grades 1 and 2?

My concern is the possibility that Arthur is posting a baseless rumor without sufficient research. I am curious to hear what research Arthur did other than repeating the claims of protesters.

If the claims have some truth to them, I would like to know.
norm
August 3rd, 2009 1:29 pm

Maybe everyone should do some research Ken. Does HSA recruit? How do they recruit? Do they have access to test scores of kids in public schools? Did they send out letters to individual homes? How many? Where did they get the list? Do they test kids before entry? What kinds of tests? Are scores (not with individual names) available for public scrutiny? Do kids who take tests in pre grade 3 get scored on a 1-4 basis? How else will the doe manage to pay bonuses and try to deny teachers tenure as they would love to do without some comparison grades?

Enough homework for now. Or you can just go to the beach, like I am.
Ken
August 3rd, 2009 1:43 pm

Sounds like you are changing the subject Norm. I agree that there are many interesting questions, but you might agree that it is important to do some basic research before spreading rumors. But only Arthur can tell us what research he did. Enjoy the beach!
Schoolgal
August 3rd, 2009 1:48 pm

Ken,

Yes, children in K-2 are tested. ” E-Clas” is a mandatory ELA assessment that is given twice a year and uses such scores. If a child scores on or above level, they do not have to be retested.
If you were involved in public education, you would know that.
Ken
August 3rd, 2009 2:22 pm

Thanks Schoolgal.

Do you think Arthur is referring to the ECLAS assessment?

Do you think my concern is inappropriate?
KitchenSink
August 3rd, 2009 2:22 pm

…except, Schoolgal, that ECLAS does not report scores on a 1/2/3/4 rubric. There are six or eight successive levels, and children pass through those levels as they grow and master skills and concepts. A child could be on level 3 in one concept and level 6 in another. Again, ECLAS scores would have nothing to do with the statement Arthur passed on.

I’ve been to many of these rallies/community board meetings, etc. in my day. Many attendeed are having a visceral experience and their righteous indignation stretches the boundaries of truth. I have a hard time believing the DOE would have any mechanism by which they could give scores to a charter school to differentiate enrollment. The first people complaining would be…other charter schools!
Dissenter
August 3rd, 2009 3:48 pm

Arthur caught in a lie. This is the problem about trying to report on Harlem educational issues while sitting in Queens. I live in Queens and I stick to issues in Queens.
Schoolgal
August 3rd, 2009 3:53 pm

I just answered Ken’s questions regarding testing. And yes, the students are tested for each category of E-Clas and must get re-tested on those areas they do not pass. I for one do not know how a charter gets the scores so did not comment on that. Perhaps the charter can explain that given the strong ties it has with our mayor. Or maybe it’s on the application. I wouldn’t know since I wasn’t there. But there are ways to find out scores and K-2 students are tested.

But I do know that this particular charter has been having problems keeping teachers and administrators lately. And I do feel that charters should have a working relationship with the school that houses them. But in this case, this charter did use strong-arm tactics. There was a story reported a few months back (and I would need some time to find that link) where Moskowitz blatantly stated she would have her school despite the parents objections. Not a good way to start a relationship. I do have insight on this school since I know one of the founding administrators that is well respected and still works there. Moskowitz is not very respectful to her staff, hence the revolving door. Students need consistency and experienced teachers, and teachers need respect and the ability to collaborate.

I do believe there are charters that make sure they get the cream of the crop as well as charters who only take struggling students. And those that take in struggling students also have the right to discharge them if they don’t conform to behavioral standards or make improvement. What I would like to see for NYC public schools is a system that also makes student and parental responsibility as important a factor as it is for charters. I also believe that our students shouldn’t have to learn in an environment that is crumbling. Yet the mayor does not seemed concerned with that, and that message sends a signal to students that we do not think much of you if we don’t care about the building conditions.
Dissenter
August 3rd, 2009 3:57 pm

Arthur’s repeat of the test scores is total bullsh*t. Individual test scores and students names, addresses are fully protected by FERPA — not even Eva Moskowitz could just be given them by the DOE without parent consent. This is the kind of crap that gets made up by people who hate charter schools for no other reason than to protect their own cushy jobs.
Arthur Goldstein
August 3rd, 2009 4:00 pm

In a single paragraph of this piece, I reported what I heard said about test scores, and presented it as such. If what the speakers said was incorrect, I apologize. I found the assertions interesting in view of what Juan Gonalez had previously written:

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/education/2009/06/03/2009-06-03_dont_these_kids_count_too_students_at_ps_123_are_pushed_aside_for_charter_school.html

“Klein often notes that thousands of parents have applied to get their kids into the four schools Moskowitz runs.

He never mentions the well-financed marketing campaign Moskowitz has fashioned to drum up those applications. Nor does he mention that the Education Department has sponsored thousands of automated phone calls to parents in Harlem to get them to apply to Harlem Success schools - something it does for no other public schools.

Hargrove and her parents association at PS 123 organized their own recruitment campaign this year with no money and no assistance from Klein. They held four open houses for the community and persuaded 644 parents to apply to their new middle school.”
Dissenter
August 3rd, 2009 4:10 pm

Arthur as you note, good schools like the one your child and my child attend don’t need any marketing to get people in the door. Parents who are able vote with their feet. That appears to be the problem with PS 123 and why they have to beg parents to apply there. The school is not good and lots of parents figured it out a long time ago. I think they need some competition from HSA to make them better.
Ken
August 3rd, 2009 4:12 pm

It sounds like we can all agree that the allegation that Arthur included in his post sounds a bit odd. Perhaps, though, he will let us know what we might be missing. Meanwhile, Schoolgal, thanks for your help. With your continued assistance, I might one day qualify as “involved in public education”!
norm
August 3rd, 2009 4:57 pm

I would argue there is a generic use of the terms 3’s and 4’s to come to mean students who would be successful. The renovation of the Statue of Liberty now reads:

“Give me your tired, your poor

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

As long as they can score a three or a four.
norm
August 3rd, 2009 5:02 pm

Dissenter says, “This is the problem about trying to report on Harlem educational issues while sitting in Queens. I live in Queens and I stick to issues in Queens.”

Yet follows with, “The school [PS 123] is not good.”

Took a road trip Dissenter?
Pogue
August 3rd, 2009 5:08 pm

Look, it’s obvious and it has been for awhile, NYC charters schools are run “privately” and “cream” their students, while public schools can’t.
Schoolgal
August 3rd, 2009 5:10 pm

Ken,
It just that some of the comments here that are pro this school have made statements that are not true of public schools–like the principal should fix up the school when it’s not in the principals domain to order such repairs as new windows, new walls and floors and new bathroom fixtures. Or that K-2 students aren’t tested. They are given assessments throughout the year including E-Clas. If you truly understood our public schools, you will know that everything I have stated is true.

For instance, public schools do not have to ask parents to sign a contract. From HSA:

Harlem Success parents care deeply about their children’s success and go “Beyond Z” to achieve our common goals. Our parents and students sign “The Contract” and commit to coming to school everyday, on time, dressed in uniform, ready to learn. We are strict about attendance because to us, every minute of instruction counts. We continuously review our school schedule to be sure we are making the most efficient use of our time. We are strict about uniforms because we want all energies focused on student performance – not on who has the latest sneakers.

Yet the mayor applauds this school (see their website under “News”) but does not offer the same support for his own schools. When parents are involved, no matter the location of the school, those students do well. But have you Ken ever encountered a parent that was drunk during a meeting? Or a parent that sends their child to school late or not dressed appropriately for the weather? Did you ever see a child fall asleep in class because they are not getting enough rest at home? Or a student that curses the teacher and starts fights in the classroom?
Do you know public school teachers do not have the right to prevent a disruptive student from going on a class trip? We used to have that right, but the state said it would hurt the self-esteem of that child. Parents have the right to refuse to have their child referred even if that child is struggling and needs additional one-on-one services. Many principals that are appointed by Klein do nothing to make sure discipline is adhered to. They are more interested in test prep and getting their bonus. And the “discipline code” set forth by the DoE is a joke. The tests are so watered down, students who need additional services are not getting it because they “pass” these tests. This one test determines everything about that student and school while teacher input is not taken into consideration.

Charters don’t have these problems yet the pro-charter people seem to forget that. These problems don’t exist for them because they can pick and choose and discharge those who do not follow “the contract”. If in the next few years all schools became charters and had to deal with the realities where such contracts could not be enforced, I will bet the level of success would not be the same. So instead of looking at charters, we should look to improve the responsibility of both the student and parent the way HSA does. Only then will our schools be truly successful and teachers can get back to teaching curriculum instead of teaching tricks to pass the test or adjusting grades and implementing “seat-time credit” which they are now forced to do under “test prep”.
Ken
August 3rd, 2009 5:47 pm

Thanks Schoolgal.

Your comments are really interesting, but, again (for the last time?), I am only encouraging bloggers to be careful with the circulation of rumors from unreliable sources.

I am concerned that some of these debates have gotten heated enough that very smart people are resorting to the propagation of flimsy hearsay. In this post, I think Arthur has some interesting points, but some of his facts about Harlem Success seem to be based largely on the statements of a few protesters that are in the midst of a conflict with the DoE and HSA. Again, to be clear, only the author could tell us the details of his research. That’s why so many of my comments are in the form of questions.

Commenters have challenged me when they feel that I may have mixed speculation with fact in a misleading or careless manner. I think that is a positive element of this medium.
Pogue
August 3rd, 2009 7:04 pm

It’s just terrible that nobody exercises “flimsy hearsay” better than Mike Bloomberg, Joel Klein, Arne Duncan, Paul Vallas, Michelle Rhee, and the oligarchs who back them. As teachers, we know, everyday, what is “Keeping It Going” for NYC public students, and it’s not right. Many who argue against this selective, charter school, union busting movement are the parents of NYC public schoolchildren and teachers. I’d like to see a bit more digging in the research about the real reasons for the better graduation rates and state scores by the so-called researchers and journalists. Teachers get very tired of being told how to help children, educationally, by people who’ve never taught.
Patrick J. Sullivan
August 3rd, 2009 9:23 pm

Why is it that the onus is on Arthur, the chapter leaders of a high school, to explain the DOE’s policies for sharing student data? The Chancellor maintains a communications staff of fourteen people. Shouldn’t he and this staff make a clear and transparent statement of how student data is protected? They don’t.

While I am loathe to address anonymous commenters, Arthur asked me last week about this issue but I was away and didn’t get to respond directly.

After much prodding and many emails, the CEC president of District 1 pried the details out of the charter school office. The DOE explained how they extract data from ATS, including the child’s name and home address, then hand it over to an outside vendor, Vanguard Direct. Charter operators go to Vanguard Direct and explain what students they want to solicit and pay the vendor to send the mail. I don’t know if test scores are included in the data DOE makes available.

The practice of charters sending mailings to students in this way is common on Districts 1, 3 and 5. I don’t know about the other districts because I didn’t ask.
Michael M.
August 3rd, 2009 9:58 pm

Thank you Patrick (and CEC1)!

This is quite disturbing.

I’m sure I’m not the only parent interested in what data about my kids is being released by DOE without my consent!

Secondly, and secondarily, who is Vanguard Direct, and what money is changing hands between DOE, Vanguard Direct, and the various charter operators? What are the rules and restrictions placed on Vanguard Direct?

Third, how many OTHER data farms does DOE deal with?

Last, what criteria exactly are being tracked and requested? Test scores? Race? Gender? Age? Parent income? Single parent? Currently enrolled school (and implicity, distance from home to school)? Years at current school? Suspensions or other disciplinary action? IEPs?

(GS sleuths, how about a story?)
Patrick J. Sullivan
August 3rd, 2009 10:58 pm

Michael,

Apart from Juan Gonzalez, no one in the press is going to get the clearance from their pro-charter editors to dig into how charters actually operate. Not on this issue of taking public school student data, not on how they deter kids who need services and especially not on the bigger issue of how charters top up their generous state-mandated funding with free facilities, food, services, administrative support, etc, all provided by the public school bureaucracy they profess to detest.

Patrick
Norm
August 4th, 2009 12:02 am

There is so much meat on the table in these comments I’m going to have my cholesterol checked.

Well, even though Partrick told us about the great work Lisa Donlan did as CEC one pres, I didn’t need that info to know that if Eva Moskowitz wanted test scores from the DOE she would get it.

To Dissenter, who said from his cozy perch in Queens: “Arthur’s repeat of the test scores is total bullsh*t. Individual test scores and students names, addresses are fully protected by FERPA — not even Eva Moskowitz could just be given them by the DOE without parent consent.”

Maybe you haven’t noticed that BloomKlein have broken numerous laws, as has Moskowitz who should be charged with B&E for sending people into teachers’ classrooms to remove their stuff.

I too heard parent speakers at PS 123 rallies talk about the selective recruitment sent to certain kids. Maybe they used the term 3 and 4 instead of other numbers from ECLAS. Intake people at charters- nice term - would be able to judge potential creams from those scores, so when Ken threw that on the table it was a selective red herring.

Thus Ken, it was not me who changed the subject, but you - from the main thrust of Arthur’s article that the kids at 123 and at HSA were being treated unequally. We saw the painters go in - probably non-union — and that paint was not for the kids from 123. (See the video at Ed Noted in the side panel as we chanted “Paint the whole school.”)

Now back to Dissenter from Queens who told Arthur he should not be commenting on schools out of his borough but feels free to trash the kids and parents of a school in Harlem. Why do people chose HSA with assistant teachers in each class and small class sizes and a spruced up building with corporate money? Duh!

Tell you what. Why not join me in venturing up to PS 123 and take a tour of the facilities of that school and HSA?

By the way all you corporate donators to HSA: Did you for one minute consider giving a donation to PS 123 to close the painting gap? Bet not. Trying to improve PS 123 is not on your agenda. Union people in there and all that, you know.
Lucky Star
August 4th, 2009 7:32 am

Contrary to what several have said about test scores and the early childhood grades, the NYCDOE does have several ways to acquire test score data on the students in these grades. Note that students in grades K-2, as previously stated by a few other posters, take the ECLAS, which is primarily a test of a student’s decoding skills, spelling, reading fluency, and reading comprehension. Additionally, the NYCDOE also administers the E-PAL to grades 2 and 3, which is a test that focuses primarily upon the writing abilities of a student. Moreover, most of the schools administer various early childhood checklists that focus upon the skills and learning habits/tendencies acquired by the early childhood students. Then, after all this data has been collected, the elementary schools report this data (via ATS, I believe) to the NYCDOE. Thus, contray to what has been written by several posters, there is data available for charter schools like HSA to apply their creaming strategies to the K-2 students that they recruit and accept.
KitchenSink
August 4th, 2009 7:41 am

In addition to personal relationships, which I’m guessing would be your answer, I’m going to take a shot as to why corporate donors are not giving to PS 123 to close the paint gap.

(1) The principal probably isn’t asking.

(2) It’s not the principal’s responsibility, after all, to make sure the learning environment is safe, orderly and bright. It’s the DOE’s!

Corporate people - those who have given a modicum of thought to leadership - would laugh at such a notion. Leaders across fields, cultures and history have known since the dawn of civilization that rules restricting authority are designed to keep people in their places, and if they want elevate their people, they need to think beyond those rules.

You could argue all day about Eva Moskowitz’s approach and tone and statements, but you can’t argue to me (or to corporate donors) that if the PS 123 principal hasn’t savvily navigated the system for paint (and I don’t know the first thing about this person or his or her history of asking for paint) then in this endlessly complex and inefficient bureaucracy, paint he or she will not get.

And by the way, DOE custodians are required to paint 1/5 of their buildings with new paint every year. There is money for that paint. How many principals use this resource strategically? How many sit down with their custodian and make a five year plan? The custodians have free rein with regard to colors and the order in which they paint things.

This issue, whether it’s about Eva Moskowitz or PS 123 or any other charter or district school, isn’t about access and fair/unfair. It’s about leadership.
KitchenSink
August 4th, 2009 7:50 am

Here’s a novel approach to the creaming/pushing out debate. Why not round up all the parents who have been allegedly pushed out by charter schools and have them speak at one of these rallies? Listening to some of the commentors, one would think there are hordes of them. It should be easy pickin’s to find a few and have them tell their stories.

As for tests, I know thread this is about HSA in particular but has anyone (like you, Patrick) thought to FOIL the DOE to get the test scores from the previous year of all the kids who are entering charter middle schools? That may not be publicly available knowledge, but it may at least shed some light on how easy it is for the DOE to pull together this information for schools. And it may turn out to provide a nice baseline test score database by which to judge how much middle school charters are actually ‘creaming.’ (I say this believing that the DOE is NOT providing any leading test scores to any charters.)
Patrick J. Sullivan
August 4th, 2009 7:55 am

Maybe corporate donors are not giving to PS 123 because they’re not allowed to. When I was the Panel for Educational Policy representative for Manhattan I met with DOE over repeated complaints of schools that had their grant requests blocked or redirected by Tweed. These were federal grants and CBO grants that had historically gone to individual schools. DOE grants staffers had decided that those grants should instead be shared with other schools or even other districts entirely. I seriously doubt that a corporate donor who went to DOE with money would be allowed to give it to a single school. And for PTAs who want to provide additional staff or programs for their schools the primary obstacle is not the unions as the DOE press office would have it but new DOE rules requiring full funding in August for anything spent in that year.

Sure, it’s easy to anonymously smear teachers and principals on a blog. Some of the commenters here should actually do what they’re accusing others of not doing: go do some research on what goes on in schools.
Patrick J. Sullivan
August 4th, 2009 8:14 am

“Why not round up all the parents who have been allegedly pushed out by charter schools and have them speak at one of these rallies?”

The anonymous charter school booster who cravenly hides behind an alias suggests parents of children pushed out or deterred by charters publicly stand up to the chancellor, mayor and seek press coverage from all the pro-charter school editorial boards. That’s not really even worthy of a response.
John Elfrank-Dana
August 4th, 2009 9:07 am

The heart of the issue seems to me is that America has always paid lip service to equal opportunity. That is the justification for our supposedly competitive society, free market, what have ya. The obvious divergence of the quality facilities and services between these two schools located in the same building just put into focus what is present system-wide. Charter schools must succeed and public schools must fail if the privatization of public schools on a grand scale will come into being. Note, privatization is not for my own children. They go to school in Clarkstown up in Rockland County, where Randi Weingarten was raised and went to school. Come up to the burbs and talk privatization and people will look at you like you are nuts. This is an evolving caste system.

The privatization failure will play out in the cities or poor rural areas where the parents, for the most part, are AWOL. I don’t blame the parents, as victims of economic injustice have lives such that it’s much harder to take care of business; like go to PTA meetings, etc. Thus, BloomKein and others have exploited this situation to move a privatization scheme forward.

Where’s the teachers union in all of this? On the fence would be a gratuitous way to put it. However, our union believes in nothing. It, therefore, stands for nothing. Had we been serious about class size and school closings we would have put that into contract negotiations. We haven’t. We therefore lack the support from and merit the suspicion of parents. The union supported mayoral control and the closing of large schools (by doing nothing). Sure, we have passed one meaningless resolution at the UFT Delegate Assembly after another, but it’s all lip service.

I am the UFT chapter leader at Murry Bergtraum High School. It’s the largest of the remaining large high schools in Manhattan. There once was a time I would have been proud to send my own children to that school. However, in the past 10 years all of that has changed. We at Bergtraum have witnessed Bloomberg and Klein destroy our school. Dumping large numbers of high need students on us (to make their boutique schools look good and provide a landing pad for students from other closed large high schools) without offering any additional supports. Imagine a hospital designed to handle 10% of its patients with intensive care needs. What would happen to that hospital should that percentage increase to 30 to 40% without any meaningful change in support or structure? This is what we are faced with, as well as many other schools in the system.

Only through united action of parents and teachers will there be any progress. Parents need to be educated and the teachers union needs to wake up and realize its future rests only in the democratization of schools, and not cutting deal with the mayor. We have new leadership at the UFT. Let’s see just how “new” it will be.
John M. Beam
August 4th, 2009 9:28 am

Cahill Moorman says:

“It should also be noted that the only reason HSA is in PS 123 this year is because the UFT sued to keep PS 194, a failing school with dismal enrollment numbers, open.”

Let’s take at face value the assumption that the UFT is responsible for and, therefore, could fix all the ills of the school system. Re/ PS 194, inquiring minds still wonder if HSA offered to take in any kids from 194 who would have been displaced by closing the shool to accommodate HSA?

John M. Beam
jelfrank
August 4th, 2009 10:45 am

An occassional lawsuit or photo opp at a demonstration by the union is far from a principled stand.

The UFT only with the parents can be a factor.
Schoolgal
August 4th, 2009 10:48 am

Interesting that Kitchen Sink’s blog posts education as his/her field. That term is so broad, yet if he/she had any insight into the DoE, he/she would know it takes more than paint to renovate a school.
When I referred to the walls, I wasn’t talking about a coat of paint. I was talking repair of the plaster. These requests as well as monies have to be sent out for approval and for some reason, the turn around time is slow. One of the teacher’s toilets in the Teachers’ Rest Room where I taught has been out of order for the last 4 years. So much for finding a plumber through the DoE in a timely fashion! Then there’s the problem of the budget presented to principals that force them to make cuts. HSA is doing much more than painting. They are also air conditioning their rooms, providing Smartboards and new furniture. So much for the competition argument. If you want competition, then give the public schools the same support–parental, financial, discipline, (and it does seem like in this case, scores) etc., and if then the public school fails, at least the competition was fair.

And this particular school was making progress although I would bet through test prep. So why punish them by taking away valuable space that can reduce class size as well as open cluster programs like art and music and small-group tutoring centers?

Ken,
Sorry I forgot about E-Pal, but it’s been years since I taught 2nd grade. In my school, the results of that test must be given to each parent through a special PTC, so if an application for a charter asks for this information, it is available to the parent.

Arthur I think explained very well that point about scores in his reply to you, but the major point of his story still stands. Green Dot has worked with their host schools, Eva makes no attempt and there have been many articles in the past to prove that. In fact she has been down-right belligerent. Also, why is the mayor getting involved in the praising of charters when he should be doing everything possible to make sure our classrooms are updated and children are not taught in old, falling apart trailers? If one part of a school is being renovated, the mayor should step in and renovate the rest of the school so all the children of this school feel like a member of society, not just those in his good pal’s school.

And that’s the thesis behind this article.
Ken
August 4th, 2009 11:16 am

Thanks Schoolgal,

I have a different take on Arthur’s main point, but that is not what concerned me here. I think Arthur can write interesting posts without repeating some of the unverified claims that he included. People make all sorts of questionable claims in these comment sections, but I think the original posts should be held to a higher standard.

With regards to his main point, I agree that we should try to make all schools function as well as the best charter schools seem to with regards to resource management. We probably differ on the best way to get there. We also probably differ in our view of the constraints that affect Bloomberg’s ability to facilitate the process.

Separately, I am glad that Arthur pointed out some of the potential negative effects of co-locating schools. It is an important subject. Again, we probably support different remedies.
Harvey Lichtman
August 4th, 2009 11:53 am

Education is not a New York City issue and therefore therefore this discussion has not offered any solutions. For example, in Detroit the school system faces being declared bankrupt like GM, and charters may be brought in as they were in New Orleans. The government of Australia puts more funds to private schools than it does to public schools. Parents in Scotland have been occupying some schools to keep them from being closed.

The discussion ignores that Obama is encouraging charters and testing with the millions he announced last week and using the experience of Arne Duncan in shutting schools in Chicago in favor of charters.

But this does not come out of nowhere. They are only the chosen representatives of the financial elite behind both capitalist political parties that plan and see the assault is carried out through commissions involving the top corporate leaders, and on which Klein sits, such as the New Commission on The Skills of the American Workforce. If you want to fight for a better PUBLIC school system and not have the profit system wedging its way in so that it is reaching a critical mass, then you have to support the organization of the working class (most people are such) for political independence under a socialist program that would nationalize the banks and corporations under democratic control to see that the resources are there for the schools, not to mention the needs of students for health care, housing, and a future with decent paying jobs.

By the way, isn’t anybody else bothered by Arthur Goldstein’s boasting about his school using Junior ROTC to attract students. What do we want to train students for? To die killing in Obama’s widening war in Central Asia? There is some of the reason of why the ruling elite feel a good school system for all would be counterproductive.

I would like to recommend this article from the World Socialist Web Site: “Obama escalates assault on public education.(http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/jul2009/educ-j25.shtml)
John Elfrank-Dana
August 4th, 2009 12:46 pm

“…the school system faces being declared bankrupt like GM…”

This situation is interesting. Like a public institution is supposed to function like a business. Yet, we never could fathom the Pentagon being declared “bankrupt”. They do what they have to do and get the money to do it. Yet, when it comes to public education, like Amtrak, we have a delusion in this country that somehow they are supposed to operate like a business, operate on some kind of balanced budget. The subways used to be private and the city realized that you cannot make a profit from it, yet the public needs the services. So, you operate with tax money and operate at a deficit if necessary. Europe understands this and adequately subsidizes its rail systems and schools.

This perception contributes to notions like merit pay. As if we can quantify our effectiveness of our teaching based on standardized test scores. It’s just union busting in disguise. The UFT does jujitsu maneuvers on these “reforms”, as turning merit pay into school bonuses, to blunt the effect. It’s a plausible strategy, carried out with the best of intentions, I believe, by Randi Weingarten. However, I think there’s a limit to this approach. We have painted ourselves into a corner with the past several contracts giving up core rights. Embracing small schools and charters put us on the road to the teaching profession’s destruction. Without tenure (due process) rights, we become employees who have to serve as butlers to edu-corporate bureaucrats. We will be no longer in a position to advocate for the children we serve.

But, what can we expect by the triumph of the corporation in the public sector. Even the UFT has rolled back democracy internally. District Reps are no longer elected by the school reps they serve, Vice President’s are elected “at large” at not by the constituencies they directly represent (e.g. elementary school teachers elect the high school VP). Why? Because it’s run by Unity Caucus, the political machine that has dominated the union through patronage and secrecy for decades. Why would such a union support democratizing schools when they don’t embrace it for themselves? Less than 30 percent of the members bothered to vote in the last UFT general election. There was no significant concern expressed by the leadership about this. It works for them.

Such a union, by design, will only be reactionary and assess all decisions based on it’s own internal power interests. Hence, we see the dance with Green Dot and only token opposition to the all-powerful Mike Bloombergs.
Michael M.
August 4th, 2009 1:58 pm

Note to HL,

Thanks for the good read, comment and link.

I believe the charter “movement” is a good example of “astro-turfing” — faux grass rootsiness being pushed by the rich and powerful, many of whom with vested financial interest… all in the name of altruism and educating the masses, starting with the most needy, of course.

To the Passionate Decepticonservatives and the Billionaire Eduphilanthropreneurs, the dismantling of one of the largest governement functions is just collateral damage in the rush to for-profit privatization. To my eye, it’s one of the goals.

Per de Tocqueville: “Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.” My how times have changed.
Harvey Lichtman
August 4th, 2009 1:59 pm

John, even the fact that this discussion is taking place on Gotham is telling of the lack of the anti-democratic nature of the UFT. Remember when there used to be an open message board on the UFT website. It disappeared after rebellion a few contracts ago. Now we get “Do not reply” messages. The gains of charter schools and the rest of the agenda of the misnamed reformers against teachers and families of the working class in attacking education, and every other industry or service, is rooted in the treachery of the union bureaucracies, not in the strength of the relatively small elite of a capitalist system which has proven it can fail.

Appearance is related to essence. You have many cogent criticisms of the UFT but you gave Weingarten (and Mulgrew) the benefit of the doubt as to having the best of intentions. The objective role of the trade union movement for almost four decades, since allowing PATCO to be defeated and joining the Board of Directors for the first Chrysler bailout, has been to introduce (and even suggest) concessions and police against any fight back. This is rooted in a nationalist based program in an era where the development of globalization requires a competitiveness for corporations that means clawing back all the gains working people have made in the past, including education as an equalizing opportunity – if you begin from their need for profits.

The trade unions are based on negotiating in the profit system. Corporations want to increase profits and cut costs, including the social cost taxes for public education. Thus, the unions play a role like they did in the early 1930’s when workers had to fight against their holding them back and instead begin wildcats and occupations and forming a new industrial organization. However, the political step of forming their own political party was never carried out and the unions have used their alliance with the Democratic Party ever since to keep workers tied down in the two-party system that defends the interests of its corporate paymasters.

That is why the UFT started its own charters, and negotiated an unlimited work day for another charter (betraying a century of struggle). We know that really small classes would allow more individual time for with students instead of longer days and years. But that would require billions for schools and classroom space and other physical needs, as well as training and hiring many more teachers at secure wages. Not to forget the socio-economic poverty that dooms much of educational effort. The bourgeois salaries and perks of the union bureaucracy make them very distant from their own members and the needs of the students. A political struggle requires a struggle for a political organization, a class organization, and unions cannot be made to take up that kind of socialist struggle.
Jacob
August 4th, 2009 2:03 pm

Patric RE: your point about school’s not being able to receive money from donors.
Schoolgal RE: your point about competition and resource management

Theses are major issues, but lets not blame the charter school for them. They are problems that are inherent with any large bureaucratic system. A smaller organization with more autonomy to raise, direct and utilize its resources will always win over a larger slow organization that has entrenched inefficiencies. Does that mean we should eliminate charter schools? No. Does that mean we should let charters push around their slower less efficient district brothers? No.

It means we should reform the system so that all schools have the capacity to operate in the best way possible.

Or we could just adopt socialism. six of one, half a dozen of another…
John Elfrank-Dana
August 4th, 2009 2:29 pm

The “best way” as determined by whom and for whom? If democracy is our guiding principle the students, teachers and parents will make those decisions about school success.

Larger schools can work for the right population. There are economies of scale that allow for specialized classes, etc. that small schools cannot produce. The problem is that Tweed has been dumping kids least likely to succeed in the larger schools in the larger schools; while cherry picking the others who can thrive in a larger school setting for their boutique schools.

It’s happening because of their narrow corporate mind-set and reflex. At least they have a vision. The UFT has none.
Dissenter
August 4th, 2009 2:36 pm

Hey Norm, I don’t know PS 123 from Adam, but the fact that parents left is school should be evidence enough to anyone that it’s not a good school. You don’t even need report cards to tell you that. This seems to me an issue of trying to force the remaining parents into a school that’s not a good educational choice for any child. Why is it that middle class parents clamor for school choice, magnet schools, G & T program, but then turn around and try to deny the same options to parents in neighborhoods like Harlem. HSA is offering parents a CHOICE, the same choice that middle class parents claim as their absolute birthright.
Michael M.
August 4th, 2009 2:48 pm

For Norm (apologies to Emma Lazarus):

“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning for “proficiency,”
The wretched refuse struggling with “cut scores.”
Send these, the homeless, scoring below three,
I lift my lamp to change them to a four!”
John Elfrank-Dana
August 4th, 2009 3:12 pm

Harvey,

you said: “…you gave Weingarten (and Mulgrew) the benefit of the doubt as to having the best of intentions…”
I did. That’s becuase I know them personally and think they are convinced that what they do is the only realistic option. They are convinced the membership would never strike and that the best they can possibly do are these jujitsu maneuvers around attacks. I will agree with you that we need a labor party in this country. I think we should expect nothing from the Democrats or liberal labor bureaucracies. Didn’t vote for Obama and am therefore not surprised that there’s not much change going to happen. I just believe that the potential for a real labor movement is there. However, the union members need leaders who share a democratic vision and are willing to go out for the long haul instead of just wanting to get contracts with minimal inconvenience.
Norm
August 4th, 2009 5:24 pm

John: The UFT does have a vision. Extremely limited, but a vision. A vision of unionized charter schools. How else to keep the dues flowing? Actually, they really do see the union movement on the run and being incapable of forging the rank and file into a militant membership (not that they want to since such a membership would kick their asses out). They choose a vision of collaboration with the privatizers in an attempt to hold onto as much as they can. By they I mean the bureacracy. All they care about the rank & file is keeping them quiet and inactive and paying dues.

But that is off topic.

Dissenter - you were the one who told Arthur to stay in Queens even though he ventured forth to PS 123 more than once and then you trashed the school based on - exactly what?
Lots of schools have lost population for lots of reasons but you choose to judge.

You keep bringing up that school choice option. I just got back from Oceanside where public school parents don’t have a choice and would kick HSA out in a minute if they tried to occupy the school. And teachers are unionized and all the other stuff that all you market based choice types complain about. It is you and your ilk that are denying the parents in Harlem the same type of schooling that people in the suburbs get even without choice. So let’s bury that bogus arguement. Instead of siphoning off tax money by setting up a dual school system (imagine if they tried to put in charter police in high crime areas so people can have choice of which police force they want) let’s reduce class size and put resources into the the most difficult schools before we run off and set up competetive models. But what if that worked? My gosh, there goes the takeover and the charter school interests lose. Why don’t you grab a bucket of paint and head up to P 123 to paint the parts of the school Eva left out?

Michael, I yield to you as a poet lauriate and will add your update to ed notes.
yomister
August 4th, 2009 5:38 pm

FERPA
This statute is receiving some attention, so here are the statutory exclusions requiring parental consent prior to releasing student information:

Generally, schools must have written permission from the parent or eligible student in order to release any information from a student’s education record. However, FERPA allows schools to disclose those records, without consent, to the following parties or under the following conditions (34 CFR § 99.31):

* School officials with legitimate educational interest;
* Other schools to which a student is transferring;
* Specified officials for audit or evaluation purposes;
* Appropriate parties in connection with financial aid to a student;
* Organizations conducting certain studies for or on behalf of the school;
* Accrediting organizations;
* To comply with a judicial order or lawfully issued subpoena;
* Appropriate officials in cases of health and safety emergencies; and
* State and local authorities, within a juvenile justice system, pursuant to specific State law.

Almost all other matters require parental consent.
Michael M.
August 4th, 2009 5:47 pm

Thanks yomister.

So I too went to Google, and grabbed the following, from perhaps the same source:

“Schools may disclose, without consent, “directory” information such as a student’s name, address, telephone number, date and place of birth, honors and awards, and dates of attendance. However, schools must tell parents and eligible students about directory information and allow parents and eligible students a reasonable amount of time to request that the school not disclose directory information about them. Schools must notify parents and eligible students annually of their rights under FERPA. The actual means of notification (special letter, inclusion in a PTA bulletin, student handbook, or newspaper article) is left to the discretion of each school.”
http://www.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/ferpa/index.html

So the question REMAINS: were parents informed? Given the right to opt out (if not in)?
Michael M.
August 4th, 2009 5:55 pm

I think Norm is on to something (and not just my second-lap plagiarism skills, but thanks).

We need a PAINT DAY at PS 123.

There’s five weekends until school starts.

Air Conditioner Day may have to wait.

Perhaps Ms. Moskowitz can buy the paint and throw in some leftover rollers as a good will gesture.
Schoolgal
August 4th, 2009 6:17 pm

Jacob,

I think I was clear that HSA was not welcomed to that school, but Eva did not care about their feelings. So on a PR level, she is an idiot. I also stated that charters like Green Dot work with their schools and offer improvements, but I vehemently stated that the DoE should make sure that any school that houses a charter get the same treatment. The students should not feel like 2nd-class citizens and it’s the students that concerns me.

Kitchen,
This school has made great gains. So to put it down when it’s coming up is appalling.
But I suppose that is the job of a Charter Troll.

Ken,
I offered a solution. The DoE spends millions on so many unnecessary contracts, yet can’t afford to renovate our schools??

And to those other trolls…

.Schools cannot accept donations. Recently the DoE (with the help of my union I am sad to say) won’t allow parents to hire school aides to assist teachers. Yes, it is probably unfair if parents from one school can afford to donate, but the fact that these parents cared enough to do that tells me the DoE doesn’t care to keep these parents within the city schools. These are the types of parents charters are stealing away. It doesn’t just take money. Many parents no longer volunteer or join the PTA. Even at my old school, in a pretty nice area of Queens, has a hard time getting parents to these meetings unless SpongeBob is making an appearance and the kids want to go.

To HL,

A little too socialist for my taste.
KitchenSink
August 4th, 2009 6:58 pm

Hi Schoolgal,

Troll is a new one. I’ve never been called that before and I feel kind of honored. I’m picturing Fraggle Rock, maybe without the LSD.

I wasn’t trying to put down PS 123, but I was trying to put down the system. You’re exactly right to point out the limits on fundraising for DOE schools, but that is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to what Ken has written about as “flexibility.” Charters have it, DOE schools don’t.

To be clear, I’m talking about choices school leaders and boards make with curriculum, hiring and policies. That’s it. It’s the genius of the charter law. If PS 123 would convert to charter status, it would magically be able to fundraise. And modify its budget so that it could have someone to take “all the other stuff” (my words for what we call operations) away from his or her plate so he/she could do what’s really important. And if that means paint the building, then that means paint the building. No more DOE to stand in the way.

The mayor believes in charter schools because, as one commentor said, he can just write off those kids and not worry about them. SOmeone else is worry about them. I’d do the same thing if I had 1.1 million kids to worry about - get as many of them into programs that are independent of my oversight, that I can trust, as possible.
Norm
August 4th, 2009 7:23 pm

“No more DOE to stand in the way.”

But why does BloomKlein’s DOE stand in the way and then tout charter schools?

You are missing the main political point here. Undermine public schools so they all go charter and then BloomKlein can be in charge of a school system without schools and have zero accountability.
Pogue
August 4th, 2009 8:18 pm

How can Bloomberg, Klein, and the DOE boast that they’re “Keeping It Going”, if they truly are standing in the way?
Dissenter
August 4th, 2009 9:47 pm

I just love all of this, the folly of people going on and on about what they think about charter schools. I’ve got good money on the fact that most of the anti-charter school people live here in neighborhoods in NYC that don’t have them. As I said, upper middle class people have a privilege of having an opinion about charter schools because they enjoy the school choice that is there birthright. I’d love to institute busing in NYC as elsewhere in the nation to ship white students from “overcrowded” schools to less crowded ones in Harlem and the South Bronx — then we could see the real motivations of these persons who have the privilege of having “opinions” about charter schools because their neighborhood schools don’t suck like PS 123 has for decades.
Schoolgal
August 4th, 2009 10:32 pm

Like I said, turn all the schools into charters and you will find no change in the system because:
a: the monies for support services will run out
b: the reality that not all parents and students will follow the contracts, and nothing can be done to discharge them from the school.
c: the level of new teacher turnover will be even greater

However what can be done now to turn all schools around is:
a) lower class size
b) institute a new, stronger discipline code that all principals will adhere to
c) put money into the schools instead of spending millions of tax payer dollars hiring British firms and others as consultants.
d) true collaboration–allowing teachers to be part of the decision making. They know what programs work for their students and should teach to their students learning style. No more of this “one size fits all” package. If a lesson needs tweaking, we should be allowed to do so.
e) end social promotion. Oh yes, it still exists, but under Bloomberg it’s a covert operation.
f) Get a new mayor!!!!!!!!!!!
Norm
August 4th, 2009 10:51 pm

And why don’t their neighborhood schools suck, Dissenter? The kids in my neighborhood go to the local school or to parochial school. That is their choice.

Dissenter, who lives in Queens where there are almost no charters commenting on where other people live and why they believe what they do. The black people in Harlem now beginning to organize against charters just might not agree with you. Comparing the racial composition of the teaching staffs at PS 123 and Harlem Success Academy might reveal the underbelly of what’s going on in terms of the diappearing of black teachers from the NYC system. That issue will one day rear its ugly head for charter schools.
Dissenter
August 5th, 2009 8:23 am

Norm some of New York State’s first charter schools were in Queens, in Elmhurst, Astoria, Cambria Heights, Jamaica and Rosedale. These existed before the Harlem ones. You should read a bit before responding. And Schoolgal, your post ignores the research-proven reality that parents of students in charter schools are overwhelmingly happy with their children’s education and compared to regular public schools, are far more likely to be involved in the education of their children. This makes a huge difference compared to schools like PS 123, which has for decades mis-educated children with low expectations and mediocre teaching with no consequences involved. This contrasts hugely with a five year period that charter schools have to prove themselves before being shut down. But of course, when it comes to charter schools, it doesn’t matter what parents want, it just matters whatever viewpoint can be confirmed from the cushy roost of one’s upper middle class perch. These viewpoints reflect a poverty of educational values (not ok for my kids, but fine for other people’s kids) and a real kind of hypocrisy that can only come from not living in the neighborhoods where parents face these kinds of dilemmas. How dare anyone tell any parent that is looking at sending their kid to a crappy neighborhood school that that is the only option their children should be entitled to.
Norm
August 5th, 2009 8:41 am

Dissenter in your own words:

“I live in Queens and I stick to issues in Queens.”
“I don’t know PS 123 from Adam”
“schools like PS 123, which has for decades mis-educated children with low expectations and mediocre teaching with no consequences involved.”

Pretty interesting conslusions based on no information.

Finally, this gem:
“This is the kind of crap that gets made up by people who hate charter schools for no other reason than to protect their own cushy jobs.”

Yes, Arthur, Patrick, Schoolgal, etc and I are protecting all these wonderful cushy jobs.

I’m beginning to think the constant attack on PS 123 despite contrary information (and let’s not forget the racial component of the attacks on a staff with many black teachers by so-called civil rights defenders and the touting of a charter school with a mostly white staff teaching black kids in Harlem), ignoring the information posted here about how student info is filtered to charter schools and ignoring all the other points made in this debate about separate and unequal is a sign that it is the defenders of charter schools that might have a cushy job to protect with the charter school movement. Can Eva be sharing some of that $350 grand she made?
Pogue
August 5th, 2009 9:56 am

Crappy neighborhood school? Thank you Mayor Bloomberg and Chancellor Klein, you’ve had eight years to help schools throughout NYC. You didn’t. You nefariously chose to cause chaos to kids, their parents, and teachers while enabling your rich test friends and bought-off-buddies to prosper. End THIS mayor’s control.
Schoolgal
August 5th, 2009 10:11 am

Dissenter,

How sad that you take my comments and turn them around to suit yours. But that’s what Trolls do.
How many times have I stated the circumstances that make charters successful are NOT practiced by the DoE or is it you skip those parts of the comments?????
Michael M.
August 5th, 2009 11:50 am

Re Dissenter’s “How dare anyone tell any parent that is looking at sending their kid to a crappy neighborhood school that that is the only option their children should be entitled to.”

The flip side is:
How dare any parent — just because they have figured out how to survive the system and whose own kid goes to a top high school with an excellent graduation rate — defend Mayoral Control in general, let alone the policies of Mayor Bloomberg and Chancellor Klein which all together are RESPONSIBLE for the allegedly “crappy neighborhood school.”

Look, I’m all for a spirited public debate on policy. However, as I have written to GS Management, it may be time for a comment policy to reduce the ad hominem attacks.

I can understand people using “screen names” on public websites, but not as a screen to attack others or attack them for believing whatever they choose to.

Sheesh.

That being said, I do not believe any of the regulars are “trolls” per se; we ALL seem to sincerely believe what we write. Let’s try not to get under each others’ skin.
Michael M.
August 5th, 2009 11:52 am

Wow. 79 Comments on this thread. And it’s a week old.

Maybe some ARE “more equal than others.”

“Four legs (aka charters) good; two legs (aka non-charters) baaaad?”
Jacob
August 5th, 2009 12:26 pm

Can we all agree, regardless of your thoughts about charters/Eva/school choice, PS123 should have the ability to spend its money how it wants (buying new paint, or air conditioners).

If we agree to that then we can also agree that HSA is not limiting PS123’s flexibility, DOE is. Therefore, lets not blame HSA for having better paint or amenities than PS123 because they did not cause the situation.*

We can say that its unfair for HSA to have those things when others don’t, we can say that it might be unjust to allow such inequality to exist side by side, but lets not blame HSA for doing what it can to help its students.

Agreed?

*there is the draining resources argument, but we’re talking about new paint here, its not exactly a big ticket item. Also i think we can agree that this is a complicated issue and we shouldn’t assume a 1to1 relationship between opening a new school and not painting another one.
Michael M.
August 5th, 2009 12:44 pm

Jacob,
As a technical matter, I do not know that DOE’s rules ALLOW Principals to use Operating Budget funds on Capital Improvements. Not sure where paint and AC fit in. Even if PTA’s are allowed to provide, we’re back to the rich school / poor school thing that the families and kids will be confronted with.

P.S. Re your “But, if your school was willing to embrace more outcomes based accountability, don’t you think that this money could be available to you as well?” With all due respect, a total non sequitur, twice over:
1) HSA doesn’t have to any more or less than PS 123. 2) Even if both had to embrace outcomes-based accountability, there’s no connection to availability of paint or AC.
Schoolgal
August 5th, 2009 1:03 pm

Jacob,

I think I laid out the facts that it’s not about the paint, but major repairs. And here you are bringing back to “paint”. Why do you do that?

Repairs are expensive and the budget is cut so deep that principals were forced to do away with after-school programs. But I do agree that public schools should have a budgets that can make schools as wonderful as charters.

However, I do blame Eva for not wanting to find a way to work with their host school and finding ground for a good working relationship. She and her friend Bloomberg should not dictate where they are housed. That should be a mutual arrangement between the school community and charter. Secondly, when you are invited to someone’s house, you bring a gift. Eva just brings her attitude which basically is F-you.

Michael,

Sheesh back to you!! Maybe you know all the players here, but when certain comments refuse to read what is written and spin it back to ignore points made, then they are paid Trolls. It is not a personal attack as you suggest, but the current vernacular used to describe their actions.
If Gotham has a problem with that, they can delete my comments.
Ken
August 5th, 2009 1:11 pm

Hey Schoolgal,

I hope Gotham doesn’t delete your comments, but I wish you would use less extreme language. I don’t think it advances the conversation.

Separately, I would be curious to hear your evidence that Eva doesn’t make any effort to get along with the co-located schools. Are you sure she hasn’t made any effort? Why? Where do you get this information from?
Julie
August 5th, 2009 1:41 pm

Just a few points after reading all of your comments, some thoughtful and others questionable:

1. The DOE is getting around The Freedom of Information Act by using monies for mailers and robocalls for charter schools from private money (like Bloomie’s Trust for Public Schools) (so public schools can’t legally cry foul, because it is not public money they are using). In addition, they get around the law by hiring a private company to collect the data and parent information and then this company makes the contact. Very sneaky, very true. That is what this administration is all about and this is why they have corporate lawyers working for them rather than educators.

2. It was very disturbing to me to see comments that made assumptions about bad leadership, bad decisions about allocating money, and negative slaps at the quality of P.S. 123. One poster even said, if the parents choose another school, that is all you need to know. Let me be very clear here: this movement is targeting minority populations and they are spending millions of dollars on marketing and propaganda campaigns to convince people to go against their own interests. These campaigns prey on the fact that in many of these communities, the immediate is privileged over the long term. In other words, when you live in an area where you usually are not lavished with nice things, and then someone comes along and says here are all these nice things for you… you take it, no question. This is predatory and the people behind it from Bloomberg to the NeoCon Center for Education Reform know exactly what they are doing. This is an agenda aimed at privatizing education… look up ‘faith based urban schools’ for example. Do some digging on the Center for Education Reform website, if you can stomach it.

We cannot allow this debate to be reduced to arguing about paint and how data is shared or not shared (which I strongly believe it is and have spoken to parents first hand whose students have been targeted)… what this debate really needs to be about is the bigger beast behind this movement; the real goal, which has been in the works since the Regan Administration, was fortified in 1989 at an Educational Summit to plan a vision for the 21st century (organized by Bush 1 and led by Bill Clinton, where not a single teacher was invited), was then reworked through Bush 2’s Goals 2000 and set in motion with NCLB and now unbelievably Obama is continuing to propagate it at the behest of Arne Duncan (who by the way we are seeing the repeat pattern of modeling NCLB after Texas, which all turned out to be a fraud, Duncan’s policies are beginning to unravel in Chicago), the real goal is to privatize education, to create a system that mirrors the roles of privilege and subordination we have in our society, to protect the disturbing and disproportionate distribution of wealth in this country as we head toward globalization and cannot maintain the level of American middle class we have as other countries around the world grow theirs. We cannot allow this to happen. There needs to be awareness and a real policy debate. We need to talk about what the role of education is in the country and decide if we are going to protect it. For my part, I believe free, public, and equitable education is the pillar of our democracy. I believe as a country we are only as good, and we are reflected by, those who are most marginalized. We must fight for real education reform; we must fight to protect and preserve public education.
Ken
August 5th, 2009 2:36 pm

Hey Julie,

Interesting stuff. Why does privatizing the management of schools necessarily hurt, rather than help, the NYC system? How does it necessarily lead to “privilege and subordination? What did you think of the system prior to charter schools? Was it equitable? Who was at fault then? Lots of big questions, but I would be curious to hear your views if you have time.
Michael M.
August 5th, 2009 3:38 pm

Schoolgal,
Though I was trying to be non-specific, I specifically did not have you in mind.
Your points are are well taken.

GS does not have a comments policy as yet. I’m hoping it stays that way, but that depends on all of us.

Cheers.
Dissenter
August 5th, 2009 4:44 pm

Julie, I think your last comment is even perhaps the most condescending. It sounds like “minority parents don’t know any better, they get all this ‘propaganda’ in the mail and since they are poor, of course they don’t know any better.” Why can’t folks just accept that parents, rich or poor, know a bad school when they see it and steer their kids clear of it. No one gets to decide for another parent what’s best for their child, only yours. Stop trying to limit parents choices to choose charter schools. Talk about paternalism, and of the worst kind at that.

And yes, why is everyone so harmed by the idea that schools have to compete against one another for students. Clearly many public schools need some kind of competition to get the lazy staffs off the asses and stop counting the days until their pensions kick in.
Pogue
August 5th, 2009 5:35 pm

Hold on, Ken. I’ll handle this one. Dissenter, with Bloom/Klein’s chaotic way of grading schools, how do parents know when a school is actually good or bad? Where do you get your “lazy staff” statistics from? What research did you do to back up your ascercion that teachers are counting the days until their pension kicks in? Have you perused any studies where it stated using curse words enhanced the writing of an individual? Some questions, that’s all.
Schoolgal
August 5th, 2009 6:44 pm

Ken,

I am not going to stop using the term paid troll simply because if someone does in fact represent the interests of HSA and does not reveal it, that IMHO is fraud. Too many comments skirt over the things I have put forth and if it were never written. Trolls come in all shapes, sizes and political party affiliations. I have not written anything anti-charter as much as I have written what public schools need. And I agree that there is a level of segregation happening at this school when it becomes the haves and have nots, and the have nots are being blamed for the condition of the school building.

I would have to do a search on the articles written about Eva and the initial protest at this school where Eva response to the parents, and I don’t remember the exact words, that she would get her way. So before you go criticizing my rhetoric, you may need to have a conversation with her. Then there are the articles about staff turnover.

I think I have made a very valid argument in terms of allowing public schools the same parameters for student and parent responsibility as the charters.

As for privatization. In the long run, it will not work. Monies will run out and the same problems that exist in the public school will follow. Didn’t Edison run into problems??
I wish that donor money would be allowed in the public school and that each school, the principal, teachers and parents, decided what was needed. However, when City Hall houses a charter by throwing out another school for that charter, it is telling that mayoral control is not working for the best interest of our public school students.

If any donor out there would like to help a struggling school, I am sure you can start by buying books and supplies or underwriting a grant to bring the Arts into the schools. That to me would prove you care about the interests city students instead of caring about a privatized philosophy.
Dissenter
August 5th, 2009 7:04 pm

Pogue what planet do you live on? “Ass” is a curse word? There are no lazy teachers and administators in NYC public schools just counting the days until retirement? Again, what planet do you live on?
Norm
August 5th, 2009 9:26 pm

Sorry guys for being away from the fray. I’ve been out all day organizing against the privatization of public schools by charters.

At some point I’ll address the the inherent racism in Dissenters constant attacks on PS 123 and its teachers and supervisors, many of whom are black, while highly praising HSA which is mostly staffed by white teachers. All in spite of an admission of not knowing anything about schools in Harlem. But not here. But constantly shifting the terms of the debate from Arthur’s main point of inequality - from paint to having aids in early childhood classes to creaming by charters- is what people looking to obfuscate the issues do, often for a living.

Ken let me take a crack at your questions for Julie by asking you some questions.

Based on what evidence did you and other marketeers come to a conclusion that the solution to the problems with our urban schools was to set up a competing system instead of trying things such as drastically reducing class size even in a small number of schools as an experiment?

I find it interesting that with people calling teachers lazy people just awaiting a pension, so many great teachers I know - many of them commenting here - are outraged not at these supposed lazy people they supposedly have to work with but at the anti public ed people. One would think the competetive model would appeal to good teachers who would want merit pay and to get rid of the lazies. I see few signs of that. Many of these teachers are the real ed reformers who have called for years in both the pre and post mayoral control years for a rational system of education that properly allocated funds to schools as they struggled with all the issues of urban ed.

As Leonie Haimson pointed out today, gold star studies show that class size reduction is the single most effective means of improvement of schools, teacher quality and leads to all sorts of other benefits. Yet you feel that an unproven system of market based competetive schools will do the trick instead of having those funds invested in the public schools.

We heard all about how much it would cost but when Bear Sterns needed its version of low class sizes hundreds of billions appeared. So I say,YES, let’s throw cash at the problem before setting up dual competetive school systems. After all, that’s what the rich do with their kids.

Here are some of Leonie’s comments which I published on ed notes:

See this nasty column in Flypaper – put out by the right-wing Fordham Institute, attacking my Huffington Post column on Frank McCourt posted here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/leonie-haimson/what-frank-mccourt-could_b_241331.html

Check it out at http://www.edexcellence.net/flypaper/index.php/2009/08/no-offense-frank-mccourt/ and please leave a comment.

The author actually argues that smaller classes are “unsubstantiated remedies….- Rather than adhering to rigorous research standards, we resort to sweeping generalizations and sentimental stories about children’s lives.”

Hogwash! Actually, the research is stronger for class size reduction than for nearly any other education reform – and certainly stronger than the favored remedies of the Fordham Institute crowd.

See my comments below:

I’m glad that my column is being so widely read and cited, even by hidebound contrarians.

Actually, the scientific and empirical research is so strong for class size reduction that it is cited as only four evidence-based education reforms that have been proven to work by the Institute of Education Science — the research arm of the US Dept. of Education. You can check it out yourself by googling the title: “IDENTIFYING AND IMPLEMENTING EDUCATIONAL PRACTICES SUPPORTED BY RIGOROUS EVIDENCE”

There are literally scores of studies indicating that smaller class sizes lead to better results — not just STAR, which was one of the few large scale, randomized experiments in the history of education reform — the gold standard according to most researchers.

Over and over again, smaller classes have been shown to lead to fewer disciplinary referrals, more learning, more student engagement, and less teacher attrition. Class size reduction has also been proven to be cost-effective. A recent study showed that in terms of health care, the economic cost-benefits would be expected to surpass childhood immunization.

Alan Krueger, formerly of Princeton and now the chief economist of the US Dept. of Treasury, has demonstrated that the number of positive studies on class size reduction far outnumber the negative ones. The links you provide above do not show otherwise.

Why ideologues and zealots put so much energy into disputing the simple fact that teachers can reach their students better and students learn more in smaller classes is beyond me. Why anyone would seriously argue that only student load matters and not class size — as though the only learning and personal connection between teachers and students happens outside of the classroom — I cannot possibly understand.

And Frank McCourt was a huge champion of smaller classes, as evidenced by his frequent comments on the subject as well as his agreement to be honorary chair of the campaign to lower class size in NYC public schools.

Perhaps its because unlike their own favorite strategies, such as privatization, vouchers, the expansion of charter schools and/or teacher incentive pay, none of which has any backing in the research, class size reduction has been proven to work, over and over again. Thus it is the dragon that they are unable to slay.

If anyone would like some fact sheets on this issue, including recent papers with findings about the importance of smaller classes in the middle and upper grades, you can email me at leonie@att.net.

I just took a look at the three links above — supposedly research studies that weakens the case for smaller classes. One of the studies contains the following statement:

“Studies that used high-quality experimental data have consistently demonstrated the positive effects of small classes on average student achievement-for all students….The findings also indicated that although all types of students benefited from being in small classes, reductions in class size did not reduce the achievement gap between low and high achievers.”

{This conclusion, by the way, is not shared by other researchers — who have shown that class size reduction narrows the achievement gap between racial groups by more than 30%.)

The second is an EdWeek summary of the first article.

The third, an unpublished “discussion” paper by Boozer and Cacciola, also does not dispute the effects of smaller classes, but appears to divide class size into direct and indirect effects, with some of the significant gains exhibited by students in smaller classes attributed to peer effects.

Thus students who are in classes with other students who are doing better because of smaller classes also benefit because their peers are doing better. At least that is what the article seems to conclude: “Small class type treatment induced not just potentially a boost in that child’s test score outcome, but an indirect or spillover effect on the child’s classmates through the peer group effect. This is what we mean by the feedback or social multiplier effect of the Small class type treatment.”

There are many positive feedbacks that occur in smaller classes. The smaller the class, the more engaged are its students, and fewer disciplinary problems occur. The fewer disruptions, the easier it is for teachers to teach and low-performing students to focus and model their behavior on more engaged students. Also there is less stereotyping in both directions — from teacher to students and students to teacher.

Teachers can figure out quicker who is or is not responding to a specific technique, style or approach, and alter their methods more quickly and effectively to reach specific students; and students feel as though their teachers understand and care about them more, and are willing to put back into the classroom their focus and energy.

None of this is surprising, and none of it is difficult to understand.

In any case, according to my reading of these articles, not one of them weakens the case that smaller classes leads to better outcomes.
Ken
August 6th, 2009 9:20 am

Hey Norm,

Why is smaller class size in conflict with charter schools? If smaller class size is part (or all) of the solution, won’t charter schools (and all schools with flexibility on how they manage their budget along with incentives to perform well) head in that direction?
Michael M.
August 6th, 2009 10:15 am

Hi Ken,

I think Norm’s point was that we’re not trying public-schools-with-smaller-class-sizes as sort of a “control experiment.”

Indeed charter schools often tout their small class sizes, as do private schools.

Then there’s the ironically named “School of One” pilot program, ostensibly to provided 1:1 math instruction via smart computer software…. but piloted in a 10:1 student:adult environment. Despite that ratio, the administration is all set to brag about the benefits of the program — not the student-teacher ratio — and has already stated it will be expanded to three as-yet-unnamed schools.
Jacob
August 6th, 2009 12:55 pm

how’d we get started on class sizes? What about unsubstantiated claims of leaking sensitive information about students to charter schools? If you really believe its happening you should sue!
Julie
August 6th, 2009 2:25 pm

Ken: Privatizing hurts the NYC school system because our history shows that anytime you privatize what should be a social service, human rights issue there are problems. Look at the privatization of our prisons; prison populations rose, particularly among black men. Look at the privatization of our military; companies like Blackwater who killed Iraqis and others who would step forward against them with the intent to expose their Crusades agenda- the leader of Blackwater and others are soon to be on trial for murder! Look at the health care system; a total mess. Privatization has an important place in our country, but not when it comes to issues that are so integral to our development as a society. Education has an important role to play in growing our citizenry, in helping to shape thoughtful, responsible citizens. This is not the job of corporations; this is the job of a representative government that is responsible to the people it is made up of and serves. This begins the dialogue concerning how privatizing leads to a system of privilege and subordination. The privatization movement is propagated by those who seek to mirror the system of privilege and subordination that already exists in our society in a plethora of ways. Through privatization, a two tiered system is created where one set of schools, say charter schools for example, can select and deselect students at will, and get the benefit of everything that goes along with being public, while receiving also all of the benefits of being private (we have seen some of the problems with this philosophy with AIG and others, on a totally different front). Meanwhile, community schools, for example, do not discriminate against any students, and are held to strict and increasingly stricter; accountability measures that often undermine their work. Furthermore, there is the issue of targeting minority students with certain types of schools that privilege rote learning and have a very militaristic style and agenda. In addition, when you get to the heart of ‘school choice’ what happens is the most marginalized in our society, become most marginalized in our school system. For example, I teach Sp. Ed. fifth grade and help my students navigate the middle school choice program. I have the privilege to work with our most marginalized students in every day in every way; they are below the poverty level, have an IEP, and my class is 50% African American and 50% Hispanic, mostly males. Many of my students’ parents are overworked, overstressed, and under resourced, and some are, for various different reasons, just minimally or not at all involved. I have had several students through the years in tears because their parents couldn’t or wouldn’t fill out the forms; and with all of our and my outreach, year in and year out I witness my neediest students receive zero of their choices, receive their choices weeks after general education students, and end up in schools that I advised against. There is a better way. So all of these factors together combine to create a perfect storm of vying inequities that privilege some, while subordinating others; if you have a parent advocate you are a winner and privileged, if you don’t, sorry you lose. If you can get us good test scores, winner, if you have an IEP, you are subordinated. What is most disturbing is that elementary school in particular, is the place where our children develop their identities and form their subjectivity, the framework and organizational structure from within which we function as an educational system is paramount to the equality of our citizens.
In terms of schools before charters, was it equitable, and who was to blame… you will get no argument from me that there are plenty of schools that can do better and that we are in need of education reform. However, I suspect our ideas of how to get there may be different. Coming from an AAA school located in one of the largest housing projects in the city, I would assert that there are more than enough successful schools in a wide range of diverse areas that could be models for authentic reform. We do not need to go outside of our existing system, but rather use, call on, and highlight the existing excellence, which by the way, far outnumbers “failing schools”. Specific to your question: charter schools before they were hijacked by those with a privatization agenda, and after they were created post segregation as a way to maintain segregation, had an important place in fulfilling specific needs in given communities…however, I believe very strongly that this can be done within community public schools, but I would not begrudge an educator who wanted to open their own school, which is how charters were largely used in the late 70’s before they were hijacked in the 80’s, although some great charters do exist. In terms of equity and fault; no schools have not been as equitable as I’d like and I blame the funding system based on the use of local income taxes, the lack of incentives for good educators and minority educators, I fault the systems in our society that allow state of the art schools in one neighborhood, and crumbling ones in another. We don’t need charters to bring in opportunity and the kinds of environments our kids deserve; this should have been funded publicly. I also think it is important to bring up here, because those who favor charter schools would argue here that they are bringing these great things into minority communities… who is funding this? When you follow the money, the millions and millions of dollars behind these charter schools and their agenda, you are not led to altruistic philanthropists who just want to see great schools and education for minority kids, what you do find is corporations, organizations, and individuals that have a very specific agenda that in the long run, will hurt minority children- again, dig around the Center for Education Reform website, look up their connections and individuals, it is a good starting place to find the truth behind this whole movement.

Ah Dissenter: of course you find my comments condescending… your oversimplification of my comment makes you look condescending, not me. The perspective I gave was not only my own, but one shared by the parents I serve whose students have been targeted by charters as well as other parents across the city who I have spoken to. Propaganda is a real thing and this movement and other movements like it, like what is going on right now with the fight against health care for all, are organized by a group of people who have one interest and are cynical and use and manipulate other groups of people to vote or make decisions against their own interest. This happens with poor populations, minority populations, nonminority populations and religious populations- all populations (except of course that 1% who owns 90% of the wealth) and to suggest that is condescending to talk about how corporations, the wealthy, or even our own government try to control people is disingenuous on your part. The predatory nature of those in power pervades our society every day to deny it is to deny the years of discrimination and oppression we have had in this country, it is to deny events like Tuskegee; would I be condescending to say that those men were tricked into doing something that went against their own interests or as you would suggest, they didn’t know any better? Wake up to the reality of, in this case, racism in this country and how it is used to manipulate all races.
In addition, inherent in your comment is the assumption that HSA is better than PS 123… PS123 is a B+ school, by Bloomberg’s own accountability system, you have no grounds in claiming it is simply ‘parents choosing a better school’- how do you know one is better than the other? The same can be said for a school community in Red Hook. P.S. 15, an AAA school is now pitted against, in the same building, a charter who is certainly not better in fact, they are a disaster, but they do have pretty smart boards, paint, and pictures on the wall.
I am not trying to decide what is best for parents, I spend my life serving the parents in my community, you do not know me or what I do, there is no place for the kind of judgments you are spewing in what should be a policy debate. What I am trying to do is provide information as to what is happening out there: the propagation of a privatization agenda that uses propaganda and manipulation that is born out of the work of privileged folks who seek to have our education system mirror the faulty systems we have in our society. This agenda creates a two tiered system which will subordinate those without advocates, those with IEPs, this system targets minority populations and is not honest and transparent about what their ultimate goal is.
Finally, your lazy comments only highlight your disdain for teachers and public education and are not rooted in any fact. Are there teachers, doctors, lawyers, police officers, secretaries, firemen, you name it who are lazy, of course there are. Teachers are part of the same human race as everyone else and there are some duds, but the constant and again cynical, focus on these duds as if they are what represent the teaching profession is just disgusting and has no place in any debate. Competition in our schools will not create the kind of reform we need because it creates an inherently unjust and inequitable system, it drains resources rather than supplies them, and excuse me- since when did capitalism become a social policy?
A society is a collective, not a group of individuals. Education is a public good, which is supposed to seek to work to better the collective, not privilege one individual over another based on a lottery or whether or not you have an advocate who will fight to get you into the best school. All of our children, our citizens, deserve the best schools, and if we are serious about education reform, there are plenty of great community public schools out there that can lead the way!
Dissenter
August 6th, 2009 2:58 pm

Julie of course I have grounds to say that a B+ school is not a great school. It isn’t, especially looking at the distribution of grades. While you may be happy with a B+ school, there are hundreds of thousands of parents who are not. We don’t accept the mediocrity of Bs, “good enough” and “just enough to not get U-rated” that has plagued public schools in NYC for decades.
Julie
August 6th, 2009 4:08 pm

I see you ignore my comments about the AAA school in Red Hook, but I digress. Certainly a B+ is not an A (narrowly), but change is a process and 123 has navigated that process well, and they continue to grow. What is HSA’s grade… oh that’s right, they are not held to the same standards as public schools and can just make blanket claims about their success without offering anything meaningful as evidence. What do you say to the fact that that 123’s enrollement has been undermined by the DOE, limiting their expansion and enrollement plans, to favor, baselessly, HSA?

Nothing in what I stated promoted, “good enough” and there is a large gap between a B+ and ‘good enough not to get u-rated’… and you ignored everything else I said, of course. Clearly you have a vew coming from a certain subject position that varies greatly from mine. I make no assumptions for your part, I can only express my perspective based on more than ten years of experience working with and adovcating for communities and children in areas like Red Hook. What I offer is based in facts and authentic connections and experiences with the people who these policies deeply affect. Your comments from my perspective, focus on narrow and overly simplistic views of something vastly complicated rooted in years of discrimination and band-aid reforms. I fight everyday for excellence in education for all children and strongly believe that the rode to getting there does not involve outsourcing our most cherished right in a democratic society- free, fair and public education- to corporations, millionares, lawyers, and private, well organized interests. Education is a public good and must remain in the hands of the public.
Dissenter
August 6th, 2009 4:14 pm

Julie I don’t need anyone to fight for educational excellence for my children. As a parent with primary responsibility for my children, a responsibility that not teachers nor advocates nor Chancellor Klein or anyone else can usurp, I am repsonsible for the educational excellence of my children. Imagine how much greater NYC’s schools would be if all parents shared this viewpoint. Clearly in NYC’s schools this is not the case. Folks are still waiting for advocates, teachers or “system” to teach their children, and as many other parties to blame when things go wrong.
Julie
August 6th, 2009 5:21 pm

Wow Dissenter… I am glad that your children have an advocate in you and that you don’t need anyone else to fight for excellence in public education. I do not and did not claim to advocate for you, as I stated, I serve a community, not yours, and a group of parents and children, not you or yours, who have been marginalized in our society. I do not speak for them, I stand and speak with them. This goes back to subject positions, just because you do not face the need for organization on your behalf, does not mean that others do not need, want, and seek that. While your children have someone who seeks to deliver educational excellence directly to them, there are many children who do not have this privilege and there are many reasons for this- you can not blame parents for not seeing what you see, a primary responsibility unto themselves… parents are members of a society at large some, as I stated before, overworked, over stressed, under resourced, marginalized and subordinated economically or otherwise; some parents do not have the luxury of being in your stated position. I find it troubling that it seems you stand in judgement of them, and I guess in judgement of me in standing beside them, as we work to fight for a system, yes a system, that serves all children, a system that would serve not just those who have fierce advocates on their side. What we fight for does not undermine any privilege for you or yours, it seeks to open those same doors for others while protecting and preserving a system in need of reforms yes, but a system that must remain public to serve the public good, not just those from specific subject positions such as yourself.
teacher
August 23rd, 2009 9:45 am

Mr.Goldstein - have you yourself ever stepped foot into a Harlem Success Academy school? If you have not then you may want to. And you may want to speak to the staff that works so diligently at HSA schools. If you HAVE been in an HSA school, have you ever sat down and spoke with any of the staff that work there? Have you asked why the HSA schools have air conditioning, why the walls are freshly painted, why every classroom has a SmartBoard? Do you know that the HSA schools get about $6,000.00 LESS per child then DOE schools? Do you know that Eva Moskowitz seeks out private donors to get the money to have Fresh Direct deliver snacks to the school, to have those SmartBoards, to get rooms painted? Regarding your potpurri statement I have not seen it but it would be far better then walking into many DOE schools bathrooms. The reason why the whole school could not be painted is simple. UNION. You are a UFT chapter leader, yes? HSA schools don’t deal with the rediculous union rules. HSA simply calls up some painters and gets them to come in. You may want to check out what DOE schools policies are in terms of painting. I have never seen a freshly painted classroom in a DOE school. Why is that? Every single child deserves an outstanding education. Unfortunately many NYC public schools do not provide that. I have seen it first hand.

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