Comments on: What Pedro Noguera told Joel Klein — and what Joel Klein heard

By: Effective Teaching Discussion with Pedro Noguera | infinite hope | the national equity project blog

Wed, 16 Mar 2011 22:52:33 +0000

[...] We have to acknowledge the effects of poverty and racism, not use them as excuses, and mitigate their effects strategically. Community partnerships and wider supports are important, the idea isn’t new with Harlem Children’s Zone, and it can be done more cheaply. PS 28 in NYC invested in social workers, strong partnership with the Y, etc. (Pedro related an interesting anecdote about that school that is covered here: http://gothamschools.org/2009/04/29/what-pedro-noguera-told-joel-klein-%E2%80%94%C2%A0and-what-joel-...). [...]

By: Ellen McHugh

Ellen McHugh — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 03:42:44 +0000

I read it differently. I thought he mean that the Chancellor’s view of the type of schools he (the Chancellor) likes was regimented, meaning Mr. Klein thinks ” there’s only one way to go about educating urban kids”. I didn’t get the idea that the KIPP schools were regimented, but that current thinking about urban education was regimented.

By: JJ

JJ — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 02:21:16 +0000

For a so-called “all-around authority on urban schools”, as he’s called here, the article makes Mr. Noguera sound like he needs to visit a few more KIPP schools. He says, “A lot of people are stuck on this idea that there’s only one way to go about educating urban kids: It’s the KIPP way, it’s very regimented.” What exactly he means by the KIPP way being very regimented, I’m not exactly sure, since every KIPP school is very different in how they demonstrate the core pillars of KIPP.

This begs the question, is P.S. 28, that he enjoys, NOT “very regimented”? Is he referring to scheduling, i.e. are kids basically just doing whatever they want whenever they want throughout the day at P.S. 28? What exactly does he mean be “regimented”?

I work at a KIPP school here in NYC and we have more services to meet the “social emotional” needs of our students than most schools I have seen. He seems to imply that KIPP schools put the academic needs of students above other needs. Though it certainly would be unwise to imply that this never happens, I have never seen it happen in any KIPP school that I have come in contact with. KIPP schools I know have always sought to balance out a child’s full range of needs; some succeed better than others but all are trying and some are excelling.

I’d hate to think that this were true, but is it likely that Mr. Noguera, like far too many academics today, has gotten so caught up in the bombastics and demagoguery of the imaginary and exaggerated “‘true’ progressive reform vs. the ‘KIPP way’” debate that he has lost touch with the reality of what is actually happening every day at KIPP schools in this city? I think I’m starting to understand where that ivory tower notion comes from…

By: Matthew

Matthew — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 19:53:59 +0000

The Chancellor’s fellow Queens public school grad, Paul Simon, put it eloquently in “the Boxer” when he wrote:

Such are promises.
All lies and jest.
Still, a man hears what he wants to hear.
And disregards the rest.

Regardless of the Principal’s view, would one expect anything other than a pean to ARIS from any current employee who is preparing comments for public consumption?

By: ceolaf

ceolaf — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 18:52:52 +0000

Confirmation bias.

The question is not whether the principal told him that data-driven instruction was important. It’s what the principal meant by that, and what else might also have been said.

Noguera was especially impressed with things that confirmed his views of what makes a good school. Klein was especially impressed with things that confirmed his own views.

Surprise, surprise.