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Let this be the first battle of many for NYC students. parents, and teachers, and the general public. It has turned into a conflict of the super-rich vs. the rest of us.

Huzzah.

“Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them.”
– Frederick Douglass

Here in Chicago, SEIU 73 and the Illinois Federation of Teachers are conspiring to open their own charter school this fall. Our Chicago Teachers Union president, Marilyn Stewart is also secretary of IFT. She has worked hand in glove with the appointed school board to sabotage and close down neighborhood schools, mostly ones that serve poor black and latino kids. Good luck with your lawsuit!

Socrates, I’m not sure if you can access this online, but I have a copy of Chicago’s Elementary and Pre-School Directory. You can leaf through it and view the statistics of each school. With a few exceptions, Charter Schools in Chicago enroll significantly less ELL students, or students with disabilities. The average non charter school has a population of 10-15% ELL/Special Ed. The Charter Schools average 3-8% ELL/Special Ed.

Noble Street Charter Schools also encourage students having difficulties to “move on” by draconian discipline policies. If you earn an “F” you must pay $150.00 A “D” is like $100.00. Extreme emphasis is placed upon test scores, with much rote learning.

Check out SubstanceNews.net if you want to learn more than you care to about Chicago’s public education.

Where do all of these comments leave parents of children who attend charter schools in these districts? Are they villified too?

Socrates, DOE does not provide figures for the relative percentage of special ed or ELL students, but the following is from Luis Reyes testimony before the Assembly education committee:

The real liar is Deputy Chancellor Christopher Cerf. Charter schools are not “overall serving many ELLS.” The proportion of ELLs in charter schools this year is 4% according to a DOE representative who responded to a query from the NYC Comptroller’s Office. The overall proportion of ELLs in district public schools this schools is 14%.

Point of clarification regarding Citywide Council on High Schools non-participation in the suit: Since the CCHS is not created under the State mayoral control law but only Chancellor’s Regulation, the requirement that the DOE consult with the CEC does not necessarily cover the CCHS. As a result, better not to complicate the litigation with this side issue which ought to be resolved under the statute’s reauthorization. -David

Chris, In the case of PS 241, this is not a school that “consistently failed”. If anything, the DOE failed to help the school time and again. Several years ago, PS/MS 241 was one of the best schools in Harlem and parents clamored to go there. Teachers also wanted to teach there. At the time the school was partnered with a non-profit organization that supported an innovative and creative curriculum. The DOE then came in and said that the curriculum had to be changed to one that aligned to the state standards. The non-profit decided to leave since they could not continue their program. This was the first blow. Secondly, an assistant principal decided to start her own charter school and in the process, took teachers and families with her. Add to that and the loss of Title 1 funds because the paperwork was not filed and this is a blueprint for disaster. Finally, there already is a charter school in the 241 building. It is a middle/high school with (what has been described to me as) emotionally disturbed kids. Last week there was a slashing in the building between two of these kids. There have also been incidents in stairwells that have been reported. One major reason that there has been such an attrition of students is that families are afraid to put their kids into a building with these kids. I wonder how the DOE and Eva Moskowitz will handle this if they take over the school. My point is that 241 could still be functioning well if not for these body blows, some caused by the DOE. Why are they abandoning their own schools for charters that have no track record?

I told Chancellor Klein at the February Panel for Educational Policy meeting that charters do not enroll enough students who receive special education services or are English Language Learners. He said he agreed with my point about ELL and said they needed to work harder to make charter schools accessible to that population.

But this lawsuit isn’t about whether charters are good or bad, it’s about whether parents in neighborhoods like Brownsville and Harlem are allowed to exercise the rights given to them by State Education Law. If the law says zoning is the responsibility of the Community Education Council, then it is not the mayor’s prerogative to suspend that authority.

John White and apparently Gotham Schools would have us believe the debate is about the quality of charter schools. But the idea that Bloomberg and Klein cannot fix the public schools and instead would hand them over to charters cannot be a justification for ignoring the law.

Actually, previous Chancellors believed it was their job to fix low-performing schools and actually did that — by providing them w/ specific programs to reduce class size and offer extended day, as in the case of Rudy Crew and the Chancellor’s district.

Joel Klein instead thinks its his job to close regular public schools to put in charter schools, those schools that provide some of the same programs that Klein refuses to provide in our regular public schools.

At the same time, charter schools do not educate their fair share of our neediest students. He is creating two, inherently unequal school systems within this city.

Just curious, Abby, who do you work for?

By the way, charter schools ARE public schools. They are chartered by the state or city, must accept ALL students on a random basis, and are thus entitled to public money. Unfortunately, they get about 73% of what traditional pubic schools get, per pupil.

And if you have a problem with the “one size fits all” curricula that many charter schools use, take that up with the crappy charter schools. Unfortunately, because those schools tend to score very well on tests – who wouldn’t if you take tests all the time – they get good “grades” on their school report cards. Maybe that speaks to how crappy the grading system really is.

Believe it or not, there are several charter schools out there that use constructivist, developmentally appropriate curricula that hold social studies at their core. Look into it, and support them. They – and by that I mean WE – do very good things.

I agree with Ellen- Where did Michael get his “stats’ on the per pupil spending charter versus public- The charters do not get less than the publics from everyone I have interviewed, including a Harlem charter school principal. And regarding the “crappy charter schools” whose students test well- I would like to know which ones he is referring to- It would be good for the Harlem and Bronx parents to know when they are deciding which is the lesser evil. I mean, I would love to know which charter schools use constructivist, developmentally appropriate curricula that hold social studies at their core. Please let us know so we can spread the word.

I apologize. My initial response didn’t post. I’ll try again.

The stats come from NYSED, the Center for Charter School Excellence, and the Center for Education Reform.

New York City traditional public schools received $16,800. New York State charter schools received a $12,432 per pupil allocation this year. That’s 73%. Charter school funding comes from the STATE, but is filtered through the city. And while public schools are receiving a significant funding increase next year – as they absolutely should – charter schools funding is being cut even further.

The ELL and demographic stats are also courtesy of NYSED and the NYC Charter Center. They are accurate.

Unsavory charter schools include, but are not limited to: KIPP, Achievement First, Explore, Harlem Success, Harlem Children’s Zone …

The “good guys” include, but are not limited to: Harlem Link, Community Roots, Girls Prep, Renaissance, Our World Neighborhood, Bronx Arts …

I know I might receive some flack for this, but I think I’m pretty well informed. I’d love to hear others’ thoughts.

That isn’t a news article or anything, is it? It’s a blog.

According to the city council, tax levy funding accounts for about 50% of the per pupil expenditure. So let’s do the math.

.5x = $8,278
x = 16,556

Curiously close to the $16,800 figure. Wouldn’t you say?

But Patrick Sullivan, who wrote the blog post and who is posting on this article, should know that. I assume that you know that too, right Leonie?

Of course she knows that. It was posted by Ken on her very own blog in the comments section. It’s the only comment she didn’t respond to. I won’t speculate as to the reason for that, but I will guess that even if the evidence that district schools get more money than charters is incontrovertible, Leonie will find a way to deny it.

The other funding source that’s always brought up is philanthropy, but this DOE has raised tons of philanthropic funds, and many charters explicitly state that they are only trying to raise enough money to close the funding gap. I’d be surprised if charters have raised more than Tweed has, but I’d put good money on a bet that says that, inclusive of philanthropic dollars, the district spends considerably more per student than charters do.

Michael, I’m curious what you’re basing your list of unsavory charters on. I’ve visited most of the ones you mention and the schools in those networks are very different from each other. Or is it just the fact that they are CMOs that bothers you?

Really, you have evidence of my naivete on this matter? Please reference facts, not opinions stated on your blog, in support of your argument.

Leonie,

Come on … when have you EVER gotten a straight answer from the DOE?

“the average NYC public school gets $8,000 per gened student”

Your words. Since you referred me to Patrick Sullivan’s blog post, I assume that you are referring to the “$8,278 in per capita tax levy funding for public schools” that he identifies. I agree with both of you, so long as you recognize that $8,278 represents about HALF of what NYC public schools receive per pupil.

Charter schools get less money. Some charters – like the franchised ones – can fundraise immense amounts of money, for sure. But there are other charter schools too … ones that don’t have EMOs, full time fundraisers, or connections with the wealthiest people in the country. Those schools (like mine) have a very difficult time raising that same kind of money. I know that from many years of first hand experience in charter schools, both EMO schools and otherwise.

Please recognize that, like traditional public schools, charter schools differ greatly. We’re not all Dave Levin and Kenneth Langone.

Chris,

I’m not necessarily bad-mouthing KIPP, but teaching practices that don’t allow kids to think don’t appeal to me. Students should learn how to navigate their world in a way that makes sense to them. Students at KIPP are regularly demoralized and shamed.

You are right. They don’t deserve to be labeled as bad … I didn’t say that. I guess you’re suggesting that I implied that based on my classification of those other schools as the “good guys.” Fair enough. It was a little tongue in cheek, though.

I’m just wary of their one size fits all model. The teachers I know that have worked there and the kids I know that have left KIPP schools have some no-so-awesome things to say about it.

That’s all I really mean.

The correct comparison is money going to the district vs. money going to the charter school, since the charter school is its own LEA. If charters benefit from free services, the only way to figure out if the charter funding + district freebies is greater than the district per-pupil funding is to put actual numbers to it. I would love to hear from one of the charter people on here like Kitchen Sink to see how much those services they get from the district actually cost. I bet it’s minimal and not even close to closing the funding gap between districts and charters, but I don’t know that for sure, and neither do you, Leonie.

Underlying this whole ridiculous argument is the misconception that more money actually leads to higher achievement, of which there’s very little evidence. Even if charters do have higher funding, it’s not enough to matter from an achievement perspective. Leonie would, of course, have the extra funding spent on lowering class sizes by a couple students, which would be the biggest possible waste of it. Why it’s worth spending your time advocating for money you would then immediately flush down the toilet is beyond me.

Michael,

And to the other side, I have known many teachers and students and families that would say the exact opposite about KIPP. They believe in their approach and philosophy. Interesting article in The Economist that you should check out. An outsider view of KIPP: http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13519194&CFID=53058960&CFTOKEN=96661914#thursday.

My visits to KIPP (I have seen three different KIPPs at various times) have shown me students thinking up a storm. They were processing and not giving up on hard problems.

We need to be careful not to be divided in an effort not to be conquered. The charter schools that are not serving students well (i.e. not teaching them anything and basically performing at the same level as the district schools) are the only ones we should be speaking out against.

I understand your dislike for KIPP’s model, but I think it is important to realize once again, that parents choose to apply to charter schools and if they don’t like the model, they can choose to leave. Children in district schools do not get that luxury.

The great thing about charter school is that everyone can use the model they feel is best and parents can decide if they like it or not.

Michael,

First, I’m going to put this in terms of fruit.

Charter schools and non-charter public schools each have different mixtures of fruit, some of which is more costly than others. So, comparing the average cost of each piece of fruit is not appropriate. Rather, you want to compare apples to apple and oranges to oranges.

So, moving out of the metaphor…Leonie is talking about average funding/general education student. Someone else (you?) mentioned that ELL students were funded differently. We all know that special education students cost a hugely disproportionate amount of money. Given the differences in student body compositions, the overall average is not an appopriate statistic.

2) So long as charter and non-charters get goods or services or potential expenses taken care of without any money changing hands, comparing average $ to a district and average $ to a charter school is not apporpriate. Non-charter schools get facilities paid for, and the DOE provides a lot of central office services to charters free of charge. You know that you have to take that into account right?

Most of the recent comments have offered some (more or less) insightful thinking. Clearly everyone is very concerned about children and education. But I think the crux of the matter is that folks who are concerned about children and education should support schools at which teaching and learning looks good and works. We should support schools that serve the community’s needs. Lots of schools – public charter, traditional public, private – do just that.

When we claim that ALL charters/traditional public/private are/do/hate/love this or that, then we miss the point.

Chris, this is exactly the point I’m trying to make. There are lots of different kinds of charter schools out there. There are a group of us that want the public to know that we are NOT like KIPP, Achievement First – and most importantly – Harlem Success. It is possible for charter and traditional public schools to share a set of values on which their teaching is based, to share an outlook on children, to share a SPACE.

Let’s be real. There are some charters that treat the traditional public school system poorly. I’ve heard first hand horror stories about how a certain franchised charter school on Lenox Ave acts in their shared public space. Let’s tell the public about that. Let’s tell the DOE about that. But let’s not loop all charter schools together for the sake of argument and our own personal viewpoints.