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http://www.nysun.com/editorials/a-light-on-the-contract/77957/
Honestly, you could google “Eva Moscowitz” and “teacher bashing” and get hits back 7 years…

Moskowitz’s response to you is incredibly self-righteous. It demonstrates how she makes enemies and cannot understand why. Only she cares about children; only she is brave. Only she can be counted on to do the right thing no matter what. Everyone else, as the unnamed charter person said, is unworthy as compared to wonderful her.

Elizabeth, I think this happened before you arrived, but around the end of her time in the Council I remember her holding a well-publicized hearing where she made a point of blaming the unions for most of the problems in the school system. I don’t remember the much about it, but I do remember the UFT claiming that her presentation was very dishonest and I believe they made some substantive points in backing this up. I know they’ve had it in for her since then.

You write that “only about 30 families will be displaced” at 241. According to the latest class size reports released by DOE, 284 children are enrolled at the school Does that mean each family has an average of 9.5 kids who attend the school?

Eva Moskowitz makes the argument that the reason people don’t like her is that she challenges the status quo. Where have I heard that point before? Oh yes, that’s what Joel Klein says every time anyone criticizes him – even though he has been in complete control of the system for more than six years. Why is it that reporters let her and Joel Klein get away with this nonsense?

One wonders why she is challenging the status quo when she is being subsidized and supported by administration, when she’s been allowed her to open four charter schools without any results from the first one, when she gets her way to grab space in other people’s schools and displacing other students, by busing parents in and successfully staging huge PR events, when charter school payments are rising by something like 80%, while the rest of the public school budget is being slashed? She is not challenging the status quo; she is the status quo.

What’s happening at PS 241 is both illegal and despicable. If it is allowed to stand, it would essentially allow the DOE to close any and all zoned public schools and put charter schools in their place – essentially privatizing the system.

This is a pretty good description of the attitude of the entire “school reform” movement, in my opinion:

(From Elizabeth’s original post, one description of Moskowitz’s attitude)

“Rather than approaching the district public schools with respect, Moskowitz makes a habit of dismissing their work as unacceptable.

“‘You’re trash,’ is what the message is. ‘You’re trash, and get out of the way, because we know what to do and you don’t,’”

Two paradoxes:

1) Why do charter schools (and private schools) advertise small class sizes — but Tweed effectively says class sizes are not a priority for public schools (this typically comes up in a false choice opposite teacher quality); and

2) Why don’t charter schools get subjected by Tweed to the same test score reporting and school progress report grading — especially given that they are hyped as NOT displacing public school students, even while in fact absconding with their buildings?

If charter schools are going to tout their advantages, let them belly up to the same bar as any other school.

Sauce for the goose = catnip for the gander?

(See link for CECD2′s position on one such charter school siting debate: Ross Academy into 55 East 25th, May 2008.)

ceolaf,

I wasn’t being as indirect as you give me credit for. I mean my comments at face value, and wasn’t even getting into the union question.

Pointedly: If charters espouse to do a better job of educating, how are we to test, or in any way evaluate, their assertion?

Call me naive, but I continue to believe that charter students should be able to outperform the mainstream students — on some common basis of comparison — or what’s the point?

If, on the other hand, the charter students should NOT have to outperform the mainstream students, then I know a few hundred thousand parents who would be happy to junk test-mania.

Freeing charter schools from constraints and regulations, I get. Freeing them from performance accountability, I do not. If it’s JUST about union-busting (your sentiment, not mine) then at least let them PROVE it was worth doing so.

What is it that charter school parents seek? See this excerpt from today’s NY Times:

“Many families at the fair said they had grown tired of cuts to public schools. Sonia Davis, who lives in the South Bronx and works for a jewelry company, went to the fair to look at charter schools because she was frustrated with the large classes and lackluster extracurricular programs at her neighborhood schools…..

“You’ve got to have baseball, chess, cheerleading, drama, debate, poetry, and music — oh God, music — like cello and violin,” said Ms. Davis, who has two daughters. “I like charter schools because they don’t just have children bubbling in tests; they give them time to unwind.”

The fact that so many of our regular public schools lack smaller classes and sufficient extra curricular activities, and instead focus unrelentingly on test prep, is a direct result of this administration’s failed policies. That our regular public students are deprived of these essential programs is a direct result of Klein’s disastrous leadership.

Patrick,

Sounds good, so where’s the scores and grades?

It only takes two years to cook up one of Tweed’s RANDOM* school grades. (The “Progress” metric needs both the current and the prior year’s score.) Could this be an admission by Tweed that the school grades are voodoo?

(* Click link for the classic Sept 2008 take-dwon by skoolboy: “Could a Monkey Do a Better Job of Predicting Which Schools Show Student Progress in English Skills than the New York City Department of Education?”)

This wiki should have Eva Moskowitz’ picture:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_pimp

Poverty pimp or “professional poverty pimp” is a sarcastic label used to convey the opinion that an individual or group is benefiting unduly by acting as an intermediary on behalf of the poor, the disadvantaged, or some other “victimized” groups.

Those who use this appellation suggest that those so labeled profit unduly from the misfortune of others, and therefore do not really wish the societal problems that they appear to work on so assiduously be eliminated permanently, as it is not in their own interest for this to happen.

The most frequent targets of this accusation are those receiving government funding or that solicit private charity to work on issues on behalf of various disadvantaged individuals or groups, but who never seem to be able to show any amelioration of the problems experienced by their target population. Some even suggest that that if profit was eliminated as a factor, greater steps in the alleviation of the oppressive situations could begin to truly occur.

Michael,

“Peer Groups” for charter schools do include non-charters. You can find the progress reports scores for all schools traditional-public and charter-public here: http://schools.nyc.gov/NR/rdonlyres/D343DC99-D48C-4616-BEFF-53EE2769FCC7/0/2008ProgressReportResults_011309.xls

Eva Moskowitz is not perfect. Her charter school is not perfect and the way she communicates may come across as arrogant and defiant.

But the basic thrust of her efforts are right on point.

Eva Moskowitz’ basic description of NYC Public Schools as a monster bureaucracy is accurate. She says that NYC Public Schools have a “Soviet style procurement system” that accounts for incredible waste of millions of dollars. She also says that the teacher work rules are an impediment and that the quality and level of preparedness of teachers are a major problem.

What Juan Gonzalez of The New York Daily News failed to recognize is that Mrs. Moslowitz is a “social entrepreneur,” someone who recognizes a social problem and uses entrepreneurial principles to organize, create, and manage a venture to make social change. Whereas a business entrepreneur typically measures performance in profit and return, a social entrepreneur assesses success in terms of the impact s/he has on society. While social entrepreneurs often work through nonprofits and citizen groups, many work in the private and governmental sectors.

And yes, social entrepreneurs can exact a profit but, they are also fully accountable and subject to risk of losing their customer base.

The main aim of a social entrepreneurship as well as social enterprise is to further social and environmental goals. This need not be incompatible with making a profit, but social entrepreneurs are often non-profits. Social enterprises are for ‘more-than-profit’.

The Charter Schools movement is perhaps the most visible U.S. based social entrepreneurship effort. It is an effort that is worth supporting and observing.

In my view, NYC Public Schools officials and teachers are not necessarily the culprits. It is THE SYSTEM that is outrageously flawed. Once officials and teachers are freed from the bureaucratic “chains” some great teaching can actually occur.

We need “social entrepreneurs” like Mrs. Moskowitz to SHAKE UP THE SYSTEM to come up with new, bold ideas that may, or may not work. But we need to try pilot programs that push for efficiencies and ultimately for results.

Bottom line. Today, the NYC Public School system is an “Adults’ Employment Program” not focused on children. No customer service programs and mentality is in place.

NYC Public Schools are a mess. I applaud the efforts of Mrs. Moskowitz to seek a new path forward.

Carlos Giron
Woodside, NY

###

So Carlos, let me get this straight (and I won’t repeat the condemnations of the NYC school system, which I have heard since I started teaching in 1967). You mean the great reformers Bloomberg and Klein have made enormous changes (for the worse say many teachers and parents and I bet children too) and your critique is saying things are worse than ever. And the answer is charter schools. And that is the answer for Bloomberg and Klein too who set up a system where they can deflect blame – on teachers, on principals, on schools. So they resort to a semi-privatized system which can draw the top performing kids even in the most depressed neighborhoods. Hell, my school on Bushwick Ave where I spent 27 years would have mined gold if all we had to do was get rid of the bottom performing 65% and our 15 special ed classes.

By the way, my principal was a genius. She refused to have any program that would have to accept newly arrived English speakers. Thus any parent attempting to enroll a child with limited English was sent to the school across the projects. Their scores were 20% behind ours and they were looked at as a failing school while ours was viewed by the powers that be as a “success.” Special ed didn’t count in those years so my principal asked for more classes where she could dump as many low-performing kids as possible (which many teachers to their credit resisted). And this was in the early 80′s. So we saw every trick in the book and understand exactly what charter schools are all about.

Kitchen Sink: get your facts straight. where did you get 5% from?

Transportation, food services, energy and leases alone cost the DOE approximately $2.5 billion this year — which is about 40% of what was spent on general ed instruction and school leadership.

This does not account for all the other services that the DOE covers free of charge for charter schools, over and above their $12,432 per student funding, including the following:

District for Committee on Special Educations (CSE) Evaluations & Referrals
Assessment & testing accommodations
Safety & health services
Technology integration and infrastructure
Student placement and transitional services
Human resources (limited)
Integration policy (e.g. such as middle & HS choice process, promotion, shared space, etc..)
Public hearings and serving as authorizing entity

Meanwhile, the funding coming straight to public schools is $8,278 in per student, exclusive of District 75. All the relevant figures and documentation are on our parent blog in the post Patrick did from September 5, entitled “Charter School Funding Per Child Much Higher Than Public Schools.”

Now, until the IBO or someone else does a careful audit and analysis of the services provided to charter schools, I would have to assume that charter schools receive a substantial subsidy over and above what regular public schools receive — not to mention all the private fund-raising they do. If you believe otherwise, provide different figures from budget documents or explain a specific flaw in my reasoning, rather than resort to invective.

I believe that the charter schools are indeed private in the sense that the policies they pursue and their governance is outside the regular governance structure. If mayoral accountability is so great — meaning the Mayor gets to control every single that happens w/in our regular public schools –why is it also acceptable to farm out decision-making for a basic public service to those totally outside the existing structure?

Would it be okay if the city contracted out the provision for public safety to private guards in certain neighborhoods, or for fire fighting? Not to me. Perhaps this would be fine with you. But it is a form of privatization, nonetheless.

And the public and private subsidies provided to charter schools are inherently inequitable, and a form of corporate welfare, allowing people like Eva Moskowitz to pay herself $370,000 a year.

Ceolaf,

Can you point us to a copy of the union contract?

I’ve never found a copy of it online.

thanks

Matthew,

I find it hard to believe that you’ve both looked for the UFT contract in the past and had trouble finding it. (For everyone else, it’s very easy to find. Go to the UFT website (uft.org), and go to “Member Services.” All the contracts are listed quite plainly right there.)

As for the bit you’ve quoted, Matthew:

1) That’s not from the teachers’ contract; that’s from the guidance counselors’ contract. (I thought she had a problem with teacher work rules.) I don’t know much about the guidance counselor’s contract, never having read it before.

2) I understand that except to mean that guidance counselors are guidance counselors, not teachers or administrators (jobs for which they usually unprepared, untrained and unlicensed, btw). It says that guidance counselors should only be assigned to do guidance counselor work, not teacher work or administrator work as a matter of course. However, in the case of an emergency, it is OK.

Certainly not onerous, and neither forward-looking nor backward-looking. It says that administrators cannot take guidance counselors and have them do non-guidance work.

What if another contract said that Math teachers cannot be assigned to do English classes, and vice-versa — except on occasional emergencies? Would you have a problem with that? Gosh, who would have a problem with that? Don’t we want people doing work that they are prepared to do, and hire them if we don’t have them? Isn’t that common sense?

Look, I’ve taught out of license on an emergency basis while my school was trying to find someone who was properly prepared for the job. I’ve got a history major, but I’ve not given the thousands of hours of thought to teaching history that I have to teaching math and English. It was a bad idea to assign me a history class, but it was the least bad one available — on an emergency basis. And when they could find someone, I went back in license.

Why shouldn’t the same apply to guidance counselors? Have them do the work they are prepared to do, and don’t take them away from that important work, unless it is an emergency. Common sense, right? (And if it is not a guidance counselor your school needs, hire what you do need. I don’t think that any of the contract specify how many guidance counselors a school must have, though I could be wrong on that.)

1. Our nation’s economic competitiveness and greed put us in the toilet. 2. While charters are blessed with private, as well as, public money, the public schools get the “change”. Forget it, Bloomberg was given control to help the public schools. He failed miserably, instead, he has turned the school system into a “for-profit” endeavor. Closing as many schools as they have, and are planning to, is a sign of failure. There should be no credit recovery for him or Klein. ALL city kids and parents deserve better.

KitchenSink,

Let’s be clear what “not for profit” actually means. It just means that there is no owner or owners who get the leftover revenue after expenses have been paid. Many non-profits have endowments that they can contribute that extra revenue to, if they have it. So, it doesn’t even necessarily mean that they put all their revenue into current expenses.

It also does not mean that the organization must it operate on a shoestring, that the money is well spent or that it’s executives or other executives are paid at a particularly low level.

It does not mean that the organization can automatically take tax-deductible donations. It does not mean that it is a public institution or organization. It does not mean that it necessarily is engaged in socially beneficial behavior — though I think they are supposed to be attempting to do so. It does not speak to the quality or competence of the organization.

It just means that there is no owner or owners who get the surplus revenue after expenses have been paid.

So, if we agree that charter schools are not-for-profit, what does that tell us? Eva Moskowitz could still have been paid too much. Other charter schools could still contract with for-profit entities to manage them, or pay for-profit consultants for all kinds of assistance.

*********************

I have a clarifying question for you. Are you saying:
A) charter schools spend less per pupil than public schools do *on the school level*
B) charter schools spend less per pupil than school districts do *including spending by central offices*

*********************

And on the “lies.” Whom are you accusing of spreading lies? Can you be a bit more specific about what you think are lies?

Leonie wrote, “the funding coming straight to public schools is $8,278 in per student.” Do you challenge that assertion?

Leonie wrote that charter schools get “$12,432 per student funding.” Do you challenge that assertion?

She listed a few services that the DOE provides charter schools free of charge. Do you challenge that list?

What are the lies that you think people are spreading herein?

KitchenSink,

I think that be both agree that real-estate is the biggest complication in trying to figure out whether charter schools are funded at an equivalent level to non-charter public schools. This points to a difference between providing resourced and providing money. Space (i.e. physical facilities) is a major resource, and if we leave it out of the equation we are not really covering the issue.

This doesn’t mean that talking about the money provided is a bad idea. It just means that dollars are just part of the equation. And when we talk about “funding,” that strongly implies dollars/money/cash. And there are good reasons to talk about the money. But there are also very good reasons to make sure that we consider other resources, too — especially facilities.

As for the lies you list…well, how many of those are lies (i.e. intentional untruths), and how many of those are different interpretations of the available information?

>* Charter schools are not public schools.

People who claim they are not public schools are mistaken, no question. I don’t even like saying “regular” public schools, preferring “traditional” or “non-charter.”

* Charter schools do not serve special education or ELL students.

Well, many charter schools do not. Some make the policies official, and some strongly encourage parentst o look elsewhere. (Look at Aaron/Skoolboy’s stuff on creaming to see more about this.) When people say that charter schools do not serve these students, they are not necessarily saying “all charter schools.” It is just as valid to read that as “some charter schools.” Also, I’d ask if you know how the ELL and SPED % of charter schools compare to the non-charter NYC public schools. Are the equal, or close to equal?

* Charter schools receive more funding than DOE schools do.

Well, they do, if funding equals money. They have to pay for money things than individual public schools do, so we need to take that into consideration. But they *do* receive more funding. That’s not a lie. They don’t all get all the other resources that non-charter DOE schools get, but they *do* get more funding.

* Charter schools exist as profitmaking institutions.

This is a bit complicated. If taken simply and literally, a misunderstanding or a lie. But if someone arranges the authorization of a number of charter schools and has pre-arranged with those schools to be a highly paid consultant or provider of services (hypothetically speaking, of course), what does that do for the statement? Profit-making for whom? Not for the charters, but what about for their backers?

And I don’t think that this is common, but I don’t think that it is unheard of.

* The existence of charter schools in DOE buildings causes average class size to rise in cohabitating schools.

I don’t know too much about this one. What I’ve seen seems to indicate that it depends on how to you do your figuring. Let’s suppose for the sake of argument that math to support this statement relies on some faulty assumptions. Would that make it a lie? I would suggest that it is only a lie if the teller knows that it is untrue/the assumptions are faulty.

* Charter schools cause school performance in cohabitating schools to decrease.

Ahhhh….there’s the real rub. This is a VERY complicated question. What factors do you want to control for? What kind of time frame are you looking at? By what measures? I’ve not yet seen a study that addresses this well. That doesn’t make it a lie. Rather, it means that it is an insufficiently supported statement that might or might not prove to be true.

***********************************

Look, I am generally an opponent of charter schools. I don’t hide that. I would love for my reasoning for opposing charter schools to be proven false. But I do not tell lies about charter schools.

I disagree with Ms. Leonie Haimson about a lot of things, and have done so here and on her site. But I don’t think that she is dishonest. I think that she says what she believes to be true. We have different judgments about what might be appropriate evidence for a claim, but I truly believe that she is making her arguments in good faith. I even believe that Ms. Moskovitz is putting forth her arguments in good faith. That doesn’t mean that I agree with either of them or that my disagreeing with them makes them liars.

Heck, there are things that about which I am quite sure that Ms. Haimson is wrong. But that doesn’t mean that I think that her statements on those things are lies.

***********************

I am glad that you, a strong supporter of charter schools, take part on this site. I am glad that you mentioned the issue of the cost of facilities. But I don’t think you needed to accuse others of “spreading lies.” That doesn’t advance the dialogue.

Thanks for your spirited discussion, ceolaf and Kitchen Sink. These are very important questions and there are no easy answers.

As a fellow charter operator, I can criticize Eva Moskowitz on a lot of points, but integrity is not one of them. I have watcher her in the public eye or talked with her about school reform for many years, and I have always found her to be honest, straightforward and full of integrity.

You can disagree with her methods, salary, etc. all you want, but I don’t think there’s any evidence that she lacks integrity.

There are many ways in life we show our integrity, our work is but one of them, yes? The question is, can you portion out where, in your life ,you have integrity? The answer for me is, no, and that is the expectation I raise my children with. Those who answer yes, well, we will have to disagree. If I expect it from my children, I certainly expect it from those who throw words around like “moral”. Maybe these days it doesn’t matter- if she is getting the job done that no one with true integrity could do, let her continue. But you will just have to trust me on this one; she does not meet, by any standard, expectations on integrity.

I’ve been off this discussion for a while, I didn’t see your post, Leonie. There is such a fog surrounding the funding streams; it’s very difficult to find reliable data so we can debate this all day and not convince each other. But here goes on the line items you mention:

District for Committee on Special Educations (CSE) Evaluations & Referrals ** this is written into the charter law, that the district would provide; I always assumed that it is a small portion of the tax levy that doesn’t flow to charter schools but does flow to the district (please correct me)

Assessment & testing accommodations ** huh? What does the DOE for charters in this regard?

Safety & health services ** provided by the Dept. of Health – at least school nurses; not sure what else there is that goes to charters

Technology integration and infrastructure ** again, what exactly does the DOE provide to charters in this area? If it’s ATS, the DOE began making charters start paying for ATS access beginning circa 2006. nySTART is a state initiative. Charters tend to provide their own internet service, wireless routers, etc., even in DOE buildings.

Student placement and transitional services
** ?

Human resources (limited)

Integration policy (e.g. such as middle & HS choice process, promotion, shared space, etc..) ** This is a cost shared by any school that participates, including charter schools. You can argue that it creates a cost center, but not that it is provided “in-kind” by the DOE to charters.

Public hearings and serving as authorizing entity ** Must admit, this is a confounding one. I’m not sure what the charter law provides vis a vis funding for authorizers. Clearly there is a special allocation made to SUNY to fund the Charter Schools Institute authorizer, but I always assumed that the other authorizers (school districts, and the Board of Regents/SED) had an unfunded mandate. But I’ve never done the research – you may be right.

As for the assertion that all charters are better than all district schools, ceolaf, I agree that that’s preposterous and I would never state that all the new schools opening up should all be charters. “It takes all kinds.” Charters were never meant to replace district public schools, but be an alternative; colleagues; positive pressure; testing ground for ideas; more flexible. The charter law provides a wonderful vehicle for reform. I think it’s a paradigm shift that no individual “line-item” reform like curriculum changes, class size reduction, etc., could accomplish, because it frees school leaders to set a new, fresh, purposeful culture among adults, having a direct and immeasurably huge impact on children. It’s evidently not for everyone, and that’s fine because it’s not the only way to get there, but imho the opportunity to create powerful learning communities for children in this way needs to be protected.

Steven, I would like to know if you are interested in expanding the number of charters you operate? Why is it that the DOE wants to give schools to Harlem Success and not other successful charters?

Fact Check,

I admit that I left out some pieces of the story, but what I wrote was accurate.

* She was term limited and could not run for re-election. I mentioned that.

* She ran for borough president when it was it came up — even though her final city council term was not yet over. (I left that out)

* She lost the borough president race. (I left that out)

* Having lost the borough president race, she needed to figure out something else to do. See my comment above for my take on the rest.

She voluntarily gave up her seat earlier than she had to, but she was term limited and had to find something. My point was the she did not leave a job with a future to give back, she did not leave a job with a future to run a charter school. She was stuck for a job and needed something.

Jeff,
The issue isn’t so much what happens within a charter school as what charter schools do to the REST of the system. It seems Eva is a lightning rod for aggressive charter expansion.