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Diane Ravitch to Assembly: Mayor shouldn’t select the chancellor

Norm Scott warned this morning that historian Diane Ravitch, who has emerged as one of the Department of Education’s most vocal critics, would be delivering blistering testimony at today’s Assembly hearing on mayoral control.

Indeed, that’s what Assembly members just heard. “Never before in the history of NYC have the mayor and the chancellor exercised total, unlimited, unrestricted power over the daily life of the schools,” Ravitch said in her testimony. “No other school district in the United States is operated in this authoritarian fashion.”

Ravitch recommended that legislators mandate an independent school board that would publicly review proposed policies and budgets. The board, and not the mayor, should appoint the chancellor, Ravitch said. “If the chancellor is appointed by the mayor, his first obligation is to the mayor, not the children,” she said.

Ravitch also joined a large contingent of people who are calling for an independent agency to monitor and evaluate Department of Education data. She offered evidence for why city students are doing no better than before the mayor took over the schools.

Assembly members said they appreciated Ravitch’s testimony, Elizabeth reports from the hearing. Said Assemblyman James Brennan to Ravitch: “I can see now see why you have a PhD.”

As always, you’ll find Ravitch’s complete testimony after the jump.

Testimony of Diane Ravitch, Research Professor of Education, New York University, Hearings of New York State Assembly Committee on Education, February 6, 2009

I am a historian of education on the faculty of New York University. My first book was a history of the New York City public schools, entitled The Great School Wars. It was published in 1974. It is generally acknowledged to be the definitive history of the school system. Since then, I have continued to study and write about the New York City school system.

When the Legislature changed the governance of the school system in 2002, I supported the change. I supported the idea of mayoral control. I looked forward to an era of accountability and transparency. From my historical studies, I knew that mayoral control was the customary form of governance in our city’s schools for many years. From 1873 to 1969, the mayor appointed every single member of the New York City Board of Education. The decentralization of control from 1969 to 2002 was an aberration.

Having observed the current system since it was created, however, I have become convinced that it needs major changes.

It needs change because it lacks accountability. It lacks transparency. It shuts the public out of public education. It has no checks or balances. It lacks the most fundamental element of a democratic system of government, which is public oversight.

Never before in the history of NYC have the mayor and the chancellor exercised total, unlimited, unrestricted power over the daily life of the schools. No other school district in the United States is operated in this authoritarian fashion.

We have often been told by city officials that the results justify continuation of this authoritarian control. They say that test scores have dramatically improved. But no independent source verifies these assertions.

The city’s claims are contradicted by the federal testing program, called the National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP). The federal tests are the gold standard of educational testing.

New York City is one of 11 cities that participate in the federal testing program. On the NAEP tests, the city’s scores were flat from 2003-2007 in fourth-grade reading, in eighth-grade reading, and in eighth-grade math. Only in fourth-grade math did student performance improve, but those gains had washed out by eighth grade. The eighth-graders were the product of the Children First reforms, yet these students showed no achievement gains in either reading or math. The federal tests showed no significant gains for Hispanic students, African American students, white students, Asian students, or lower-income students. The federal data showed no narrowing of the achievement gap among children of different ethnic and racial groups.

The SAT is another independent measure. This past year, the city’s SAT scores fell, reaching their lowest point since 2003, at the same time that national SAT scores held steady. The students who take the SAT intend to go to college; they are presumably our better-performing students. Yet the SAT reading score for New York City was an appalling 438, which is the 28th percentile of all SAT test-takers. The state SAT reading score was 488, much closer to the national average than our city students.

Are graduation rates up? The city says they have climbed from 53% to 62% from 2003-2007. The state says they have climbed from 44% to 52% from 2004-2007. Either way, the city’s graduation rate is no better than the graduation rate for the state of Mississippi, which spends less than a third of what New York City spends per pupil.

We must wonder whether we can believe any numbers for the graduation rate, because the city has encouraged a dubious practice called “credit recovery,” which inflates the graduation rate. Under credit recovery, students who failed a course or never even showed up can still get credit for it by turning in an independent project or attending a few extra sessions. A principal told the New York Times that credit recovery is the “dirty little secret of high schools. There’s very little oversight and there are very few standards.” (NY Times, April 11, 2008).  Furthermore, the city doesn’t count students who have been discharged; these are students who have been removed from the rolls but are not counted as dropouts. Their number has increased every year. Leaving out these students also inflates the graduation rate.

We have all heard that social promotion was eliminated, that students can’t be promoted from grade 3 or 5 or 7 or 8 unless they have mastered the work of the grade. Nonetheless, a majority of eighth-graders do not meet state standards in reading or math. And two-thirds of the city’s graduates who enter CUNY’s community colleges must take remedial courses in reading, writing, or mathematics. These figures suggest that social promotion continues and that many students are graduating who are not prepared for postsecondary education.

The present leadership of the Department of Education has made testing in reading and mathematics the keynote of their program. Many schools have narrowed their curriculum in hopes of raising their test scores. The Department’s own survey of arts education showed that only 4% of children in elementary schools and less than a third of those in middle schools were receiving the arts education required by the state. When the federal government tested science in 2006, two-thirds of New York City’s eighth grade students were “below basic,” the lowest possible rating. These figures suggest that our students are not getting a good education, no matter what the state test scores in reading and math may be.

The Department of Education, lacking any public accountability, has heedlessly closed scores of schools without making any sustained effort to improve them. Had they dramatically reduced class sizes, mandated a research-based curriculum, provided intensive professional development, supplied prompt technical assistance, and taken other constructive steps, they might have been able to turn around schools that were the anchor of their community. When Rudy Crew was Chancellor, he rescued many low-performing schools by using these techniques in what was then called the Chancellor’s District. Unfortunately this district—whose sole purpose was to improve low-performing schools–was abandoned in 2003. There may be times when a school must be closed, but it should be a last resort, triggered only after all other measures have been exhausted, and only after extensive community consultation.

The Legislature owes it to the people of New York City to make significant changes in the governance of the New York City public schools.

First, the governance system needs checks and balances. Having the chance to vote for the mayor once in four years is no check or balance, nor does it provide adequate accountability. The school system needs an independent board, whose members serve for a fixed-term, to review and approve the policies and budget of the school system. This board would hold public hearings before decisions are made. It would review the budget in public and give the public full opportunity to express its concerns.

Second, the performance of the school system should be regularly monitored by an independent, professional auditing agency. This agency should report to the public on student performance and graduation rates. Those in charge of the school system should not be allowed to monitor the system’s performance and to give principals and teachers bonuses for higher performance. Such an approach does not produce accountability; instead, it only encourages principals and teachers to find creative ways to boost their test scores and graduation rates.

Third, the leader of the school system should be appointed by the independent board, not by the mayor.  The chancellor’s primary obligation is to protect the best interests of the students. If elected officials say that they must cut the schools’ budget, the chancellor should be the voice of the school system, fighting for the interests of the children and the schools. If the chancellor is appointed by the mayor, his first obligation is to the mayor, not the children.

There are many challenges facing the New York City school system. Many of the students that it serves are disadvantaged by poverty, are English language learners, or have special needs. Changing the governance of the school system will not solve all the problems of educating more than one million students.

Nonetheless, the Legislature must learn from experience. It should correct the flaws in the law passed in 2002. That law went too far in centralizing all authority in the Mayor’s office and in excluding the public from any voice in decisions affecting their communities and their children. It is time to change the law.

  • http://www.accountabletalk.com Mr. A. Talk

    My hat is off to you, Diane Ravitch. A brilliant, well reasoned assessment.

  • http://southbronxschool.blogspot.com A Teacher In The Bronx

    Diane Ravitch rocks!

  • add

    Thank you for such a clear presentation of the issues.

  • James Eterno

    Ravitch hit it beautifully out of the park. A grand slam.

  • http://www.sinksalive.blogspot.com KitchenSink

    There’s a non sequitor here: as a historian, doesn’t Diane Ravitch understand that most or all of her litany of bad news under this Chancellor and Mayor were true facts in previous forms of school governance? Are the facts not more clear than ever before? And isn’t that progress?

    Her suggestion is that, instead of closing schools that are underperforming, the administration should have “dramatically reduced class sizes, mandated a research-based curriculum, provided intensive professional development, supplied prompt technical assistance, and taken other constructive steps, they might have been able to turn around schools that were the anchor of their community.” Was Rudy Crew a successful Chancellor? Wouldn’t he have been able to continue the reforms she cites if he had full mayoral control and support? The bottom line is, interest groups tear the meat off the caracass of any reform before it gets to the kids, and Ms. Ravitch’s preferred reforms are very, very difficult measures to implement. Without mayoral control, in the past, I believe they were impossible to enact effectively.

    Separately, I don’t know any educator who longs for the glory days of Chancellor Crew, or Chancellor Levy, and on and on. I have grave questions about the effectiveness of the Chancellor’s District reforms (I have some insight; my spouse taught at one of those schools).

  • Larry Berger

    The statistic that Professor Ravitch offers about SAT scores going down may be misleading. When there is an increase in the percentage of students who take the SAT, the average test score generally goes down (high performing students have always taken the SAT, so expanding the population requires introducing more low performers). There has been an admirable, concerted effort in NYC to get more students to take the SAT. Of course, the next step is to help more students score better on the SAT, but we should not criticize NYC for producing more SAT takers. (I am in transit now, but on Monday I will track down the numbers that support my claim that more NYC students are taking the SAT.)

  • http://smellington.wordpress.com/ Smellington G. Worthington III

    I say Bravo!! to those who stand up for Mikey and Joel under these trying circumstances. It takes some gumption to stand up to the rabble and say what ho, even though you voted for term limits, we still need a billionaire to run things. And to those Gloomy Guses who say, “It hasn’t gotten any better” under Mikey and Joel, I say, better for whom?

    As ably pointed out above, were there mayoral control, Rudy Crew may have been able to enact some of the changes he wished. It’s neither here nor there that Mikey would have dismissed him posthaste before allowing him to squander funds on such nonsense. And it’s also important to note that, as pointed out above, it makes no difference whatsoever whether or not the rabble gets good test scores. The important thing is to involve as many of them as possible in the process, so as to keep the little urchins occupied and off the streets.

    I for one have had it up to here with hearing the chancellor needs to protect the interests of the students. What rot. The chancellor must protect our interests , not the whims of the bootless and unhorsed. I daresay he’s doing a damn good job of it. Thanks to you good people for providing voices of reason against unruly rabble who insist on raising needless objections.

  • Diana Senechal

    Thanks and congratulations to Diane Ravitch for her tremendous testimony! The video on Norm Scott’s site includes the Q&A, which is excellent as well.

  • Smith

    Diane, I’ll tell you a dirtier secret than credit recovery: teachers in the new small schools are afraid to give failing grades to failing students. No one seems to be talking about this.

  • Tillie

    I think DR is very smart and knows a lot about schools, so I’m surprised about her SAT comment and at least in that instance, it makes me think she’s being disingenuous. Every 10th grader now takes the SAT–of course that change will result in a decrease in average scores.

    And this issue of credit recovery is problematic, as well. While I”m sure some schools have some ill-advised credit recovery options, some schools have great ones. And for many of the subjects, the student has to pass the class AND pass the Regents exam, so there is a mechanism in place for checking to see if they have some grasp of the material. (Personally, I think some of those Regents exams are ridiculous and irrelevant, but students have to pass them nonetheless, and they’re controlled at the state level.

    Ultimately, I wouldn’t be opposed to taking away *some* of the mayor’s control, but I think everyone should be cautious about pushing the DOE back into the pre-Bloomberg model, when those checks and balances made it impossible for any change to occur at all. Who was accountable then? What progress did we see then?

  • Smith

    Regents exams are graded in schools. It’s very easy to cheat – I’ve seen and heard of countless examples. If you think the state “controls” the process, do what I did: Call Albany and ask them what they do to schools that give out essay scores that are way too high. They told me that such complaints were on the rise and that they were “batting around” some ideas about what to do about it. Not very encouraging. I filed a complaint anyway, but I’m not even aware that it was investigated. Last I knew, the behavior was still going on.

  • Diana Senechal

    The SAT scores for New York dropped in relation to the national average. If New York were the only state encouraging more students to take the SAT, one might attribute the test score drop to the change in demographics, at least in part. However, the number of test-takers increased nationwide from 2007 to 2008 by 24,328 (1.6%). In New York State, the number of test-takers increased by 3,284 (2%). You can see the stats for 2008 and previous years here: http://professionals.collegeboard.com/data-reports-research/sat/cb-seniors-2008/.

  • http://nyceducator.com NYC Educator

    The argument about who was accountable before mayoral control reminds me of nothing more than Squealer the pig in Animal Farm. “Well, you don’t want Jones to come back, do you?” Unfortunately, none of the animals were smart enough to realize that things were just as bad under the new regime.

    It’s important to note that Diane Ravitch supported mayoral control when it was first proposed. Only after witnessing its massive failure did she determine it needed to be changed. I don’t recall her advocating a return to things exactly as they were, and it’s ridiculous to assert that’s the only alternative.

  • http://sinksalive.blogspot.com KitchenSink

    I can’t see how this administration accounts for “massive failure.” Maybe it’s because I spend most of my time in charter schools, where parents have direct access to authority and their voices rule. If parents are unsatisfied, they can close a school by removing their children. And Bloomberg and Klein have aggresively embraced charter schools–not just the large networks accused of being money-hungry poverty pimps, but the one-off mom and pop schools as well.

    I want to add this comment to the conversation, going back to Rudy Crew’s reforms and the other countless reforms over the years:

    “Likewise, “whole-school interventions,” in which teams of education engineers descend on a school and change its curriculum, introduce new textbooks and train teachers — often at great expense — typically produce little in the way of educational gain.”

    It’s from Richard Nisbett’s recent op-ed in the NY Times, and is one of a litany of voices citing research that endless reform of the system-as-it-is is going nowhere. Far more important are issues of culture and psychology, the very things that charter schools tend to emphasize in the name of proving the worth of their school’s existence every five years.

    Frederick Hess probably would disagree with me on a number of issues, but his book, Spinning Wheels, is a stinging indictment of this idea that working within the box is going to bring real, lasting change to large urban school systems. Bloomberg and Klein have acted as if they have learned from this book, having the guts to stick out their necks, anger a lot of people along the way but shake up those who are very comfortable collecting their paychecks while children in the schools they run or administer flounder. I’ll never agree with everything they do, but I think they have earned the right to continue their shakeup.

  • http://sinksalive.blogspot.com KitchenSink

    And please let me add, in a nod to SF Caroline, that Nisbett goes in to say after praising KIPP’s success,

    “Such creative programs must be tested to ensure that they work as they are meant to.”

    There needs to be full, public disclosure of practices at charter schools, within reason, if district public schools are ever going to learn from the successes and if the public is going to be able to judge whether they are a wise use of tax dollars.

    I say within reason because the NY State Comptroller is currently on a rampage trying to destroy charter schools by putting them through duplicative, pedantic program and fiscal audits that are inconsistent with charter law and unnecessarily drain resources.

  • A. S. Evans

    In response to Tillie–Ultimately, the people responsible and accountable for the success of New York City students are the parents, and parents are the ones who care the most about their children, too. Being accountable in theory is fine, but if the mayor and chancellor fail, they’ll throw up their hands and say, “Oh, well,” because it doesn’t really impact them in any personal way. Their children have received or are receiving a quality, private education, what do they care? While public school parents know the devastation to children, their children, being failed by a substandard system and what that means for their future. Parents have been shut out of the educational process and stripped of any meaningful participation or power. For parents, accountability is not theoretical, it’s real and so are the consequences. And thank you, Diane Ravitch, for you measured and well-reasoned testimony.

  • Tillie

    ASE–this current system gives too little voice to parents, for sure. But I think it’s important to note that it’s not a simple issue to address. Parents (naturally and rightfully–you bet I’ll do this for mine) are there to advocate for their own child in their own neighborhood, not to create a system that ensures equity. It’s no surprise that sometimes kids in the poorest neighborhoods have parents who are least able to advocate for their child. I worked at a school on the UES with an AMAZING parent association that was very active, raised a lot of money, and made sure to pull strings politically so the school got the best of everything. Those parents knew people in power and could make it happen. I also worked at a school deep in Brooklyn where only a handful of parents ever showed up to the PA, they raised no money at all, and the only number they had in their rolodex was 311. I know it’s not always like that–those are just two experiences–but it is an issue. Look at the comments regarding the replacement of Brandeis with small schools that will serve the same population. Parents (again, naturally–I’m not faulting them) want a school that will serve their children–the kids in the neighborhood. I didn’t see any comments advocating for the kids coming from the Bronx, saying that if this school were taken away, they deserved to have first choice in the replacement school. I want to emphasize that I agree broadly that parents need to have voice and that I disagree with the way the current system has handled this issue. Parent voice should be done in a way that means all neighborhoods and populations are heard.

    NYC Ed–I don’t think anyone in this dialogue is asserting that the only option is to go back to the former way. I’m just pointing out for all the folks who hate the current system that the previous one was not working either. There are some fundamental questions that we as a city need to solve, including what we mean by a successful school, what we mean when we say accountability, and what we mean when we say stakeholders should have voice. I like some things that Klein & Co have done–at least in theory–around looking at what school success means and giving credit not just for schools that start with strong kids and keep them strong but for schools that start with weaker kids and build their strength. That said, other parts of their plan don’t work. Massive failure , though? Really?

  • leonie haimson

    you’re sadly mistaken if you think that the new schools at Brandeis will serve the same children; it has never happened.

    Instead the new small schools will cream off the best students, and the highest need students, many of them ELL and special ed, will be sent elsewhere, left to fend for themselves in some other overcrowded low-performing school.

  • Tillie

    LH–I was actually only talking about the reaction of UWS parents to the idea that the new schools *should* serve that population, rather than serving the actual neighborhood.

    But I did work in a new small school, so I can attest personally to the fact that we had fewer ELL/Sp Ed students in the first two years, and then our numbers increased dramatically. However, we did not get particularly “strong” students–our kids were all students who would have gone to the original school. They were mostly free lunch students, mostly scoring level 1 or level 2 in their 8th grade. In fact, the way we were required to take students in prevented us from “creaming”–we couldn’t rank students based on their test scores or their attendance. (Poor MS attendance is a pretty good indicator of who is struggling by the 8th grade.)

    I wonder if the problem you highlight is mostly in Manhattan? I don’t know, since I only have experience with my school, which was in Brooklyn.

  • http://www.wgen.net Larry Berger

    Several days ago I said I would track down the data to substantiate my claim that the drop in SAT scores is an expected result of expanding the population of students who take the SAT, which inevitably means expanding the population of disadvantaged students who take the SAT (the advantaged students have always taken it).

    In the interim. Diana Senechal, tried to assert that NYC SAT scores have genuinely declined by pointing out that there was also an increase in test takers nationally of 2.1%.

    Well, it turns out that the increase in SAT participation in NYC is more than 25% over the last 4 years, only 2.1% of which is an increase in white students.

    So, as I suggested, it would seem that Klein should first be commended for this remarkable increase, and for keeping scores almost steady during it. Only after acknowledging this achievement should he be challenged to get the scores of all the new test-takers up.

  • Diana Senechal

    The national increase in SAT test takers from 2007 to 2008 was 1.6%. That was the figure I gave, not 2.1%.

    As for Mr. Berger’s claim that SAT participation increased by 25% over the past four years, that seems odd to me. In New York State, there were 155,925 SAT test takers in 2004 and 160,875 in 2008. That’s an increase of 3%. If participation in NYC went up by 25% in NYC, there must have been a significant decrease throughout the rest of the state. Was there?

    Also, in New York State, 45% of the test takers in 2004 were white; in 2008, 54% were white. At least statewide, this hardly seems a dramatic increase in the percentage of nonwhite test-takers.

    I was simply refuting the argument that the decline in SAT test scores in New York State could be attributed to the increase in test takers alone. I stand by my points.

  • Diana Senechal

    Here are some of the New York State figures from 2004 to 2008. The pages on the College Board website can take a long time to load, but you will find the same information there. Where it says “Scores” below, I have given the mean reading score first, then the math, then (if applicable) the writing. The category “No Response” gives the number of test takers who did not answer the ethnicity question.

    2004
    Total: 155,925
    Black/African American: 14,831
    Mexican/Mexican American: 655
    Puerto Rican: 4,362
    Other Hispanic: 7,763
    White: 70,421
    No Response: 42,638
    Scores: 497 510

    2005
    Total: 163,452
    Black/African American: 16,945
    Mexican/Mexican American: 908
    Puerto Rican: 5,070
    Other Hispanic: 9,159
    White: 80,768
    No Response: 24,188
    Scores: 497 511

    2006
    Total: 153,518
    Black/African American: 16,392
    Mexican/Mexican American: 923
    Puerto Rican: 4,787
    Other Hispanic: 9,670
    White: 80,610
    No Response: 22,431
    Scores: 503 518 497

    2007
    Total: 157,591
    Black/African American: 17,965
    Mexican/Mexican American: 1,000
    Puerto Rican: 5,064
    Other Hispanic: 11,690
    White: 82,585
    No Response: 20,097
    Scores: 491 505 482

    2008
    Total: 160,875
    Black/African American: 20,342
    Mexican/Mexican American: 1,412
    Puerto Rican: 5,955
    Other Hispanic: 13,062
    White: 88,002
    No Response: 10,794
    Scores: 488 504 481

    Note that the number of test takers who did NOT identify their ethnicity (i.e., “No Response”) has gone down significantly since 2004. The numbers are: 42,638 in 2004; 24,188 in 2005; 22,431 in 2006; 20,097 in 2007; and 10,794 in 2008. It is thus difficult to compare the ethnic breakdown from one year to another. We do not know how many of the non-respondents (to the ethnicity question) belonged to each ethnic group and why there was such a decrease in their numbers, especially between 2004/2005 and 2007-2008.

    Note also that the surge in the overall number of test score takers from 2004 to 2005 was not accompanied by a decrease in test scores.

  • Pingback: Democratic Education Blog » NYC Mayoral Control

  • Diana Senechal

    I have partially answered my own question. If the ratio of test-takers to the overall population is significantly smaller in NYC than elsewhere in the state, then it is conceivable that the number of test takers in NYC could have increased by 25% over four years while the statewide number only went up 3%. (If, for instance, the number of test takers in NYC went up from 32,000 to 40,000 from 2004 to 2008, that would mean approximately a 2% decrease over the rest of New York State.) That still leaves many questions unanswered. I have been citing state and national figures because they are the only ones I have. If anyone can point me to detailed NYC SAT data (2003-2008) I would appreciate it.

  • http://www.underassault.blogspot.com Woodlass

    Larry Berger (2/7/09), we should definitely criticize anyone who tries to produce more SAT takers who do not have the skills to do well on these tests.

    I recently had to administer SATS to 10th graders who did not have the chops for the test. They were miserable and frustrated, and their self-esteem dropped to new levels. I hated being in that room forcing them to stay the required time when they started drawing blanks about 15 minutes into the session. There’s nothing like negative reinforcement to keep kids from learning.

    Tillie (2/10): Yes, massive failure.
    Klein & Co. may be out to define school “success” but not because they are interested in successfully educating our kids. They use cookie-cutter plans for pedagogy and programs; ill-conceived standards; maniputable data and analyses; and newly minted principals from the Leadership Academy who have no right, with such limited experience as educators, to run schools. Their school report card is a sham, and anyone who buys into those grades has fallen for their PR. Their strategy is slash and burn, and the way their distorted notions of “success” helps them destroy schools, not improve them, and replace them with charters.

    Klein and everyone associated with the corporate model of public education goes from one whimsical project to another, trying project after project out on inner-city kids until it fails. Take fuzzy math now being rejected (HS kids are still counting on their fingers), Gates’s denunciation of small schools (he admits they didn’t work), the dumbing down of school libraries, or putting thousands of non-certified grad students into schools and calling them exciting new “teachers.” These are the hallmarks of BloomKlein, and yet not one of them produces a better functioning student.

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