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From the Teacher Blogs
January 12, 2009
What it looks like when an urban public school teacher is fired
Something has happened to the charter school teacher who blogs at Mildly Melancholy that almost never happens at traditional public schools: She has been forced to resign.
This teacher has been writing about her tough school year since September (without revealing the school’s name). At a non-charter school, her misery would probably have proceeded apace until June, mainly unchanged. If tensions with the administration escalated, she might have sought help from the union. But as it happened, Mildly Melancholy — who began teaching in September 2004 — got miserable and then was surprised to find she got fired. She plans to quit teaching altogether.
Her account:
I knew something bad was coming, but I didn’t want to think it was real, and I didn’t think it would happen so soon. This week has been really awful in my classroom (and across the entire grade, actually). I haven’t been a happy person at this job, and I haven’t been a very effective teacher. So it’s actually kind of a big relief.
I was pretty shaken by how fast it all happened; within an hour I finished teaching my last class, signed the letter, surrendered my laptop, and was packing up my belongings.
Here you can read her description of her first, much more optimistic days teaching, at a middle school in Queens.
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January 12th, 2009 10:48 am
I found myself reading the descriptions of “her first, much more optimistic days teaching…” and was struck by the “0 comments” posting after posting after posting. One doesn’t have to read the posts carefully to see she is having some problems (3 minutes of teaching in a 45 minute class) yet “0 comments”.
Now that she has been fired, she gets comments. How ironic and sad. And unhelpful.
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January 12th, 2009 11:47 am
thanks for the links, Elizabeth. no wonder my archives have been getting so many hits! :)Schooldays, I can’t tell if you’re saying shame on me for being a bad teacher back then, or shame on readers for not trying to help? nobody was reading it back in those days! there weren’t a lot of teacher blogs five years ago; the community has really built up since then. though i’ve never claimed to be an Amazing Super Teacher, my second year (and on) was millions of miles better than my first, which is quite common among teachers. my first year was awful–one of the reasons this year felt so horrible was that it felt just like my first year, which I thought was ancient history–and i don’t try to claim otherwise. the three years after that though, my classroom was, for the most part, a pretty good place to be (for me and the students). when this school told me i had to completely change my teaching style and teacher personality (which had allowed me to become a good teacher with great management), that should have been a clue.
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January 12th, 2009 12:05 pm
Teaching is an extremely isolating job … unfortunately in too many schools teachers complain to each other but rarely interact on a professional basis … observe a master teacher, are effectively coached by school leadership … I’ve always believed that the principal must be a master teacher, and, teach a class that is open to all staff … schools should provide teachers with constant feedback on teacher progress. That being said teaching is not for everyone … for some the learning curve is sharp, for others slower, and for some filled w/ peaks and valleys.
Leaving on your own is one thing … being fired is another … you will probably feel guilty, sad about your kids … walk along a winter beach, go to the gym … decompress, and move on … and keep writing!
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January 12th, 2009 12:51 pm
Of course I don’t think Mildly Melancholy is a bad teacher. I found it sad that few would bother to post comments. As for “nobody reading it back in those days”, have you checked blog comments recently? Blog comments on this site?
With all the best wishes for a fine future. I’m sure you will have one.
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January 12th, 2009 3:39 pm
It is a pity that MM did not get due process rights. However, NYC public school teachers can and do get fired. The difference is that for tenured teachers, the DOE must prove their case in front of an independent arbitrator. It is one thing to accuse a teacher of misconduct or incometence, its another thing to prove it.
Many an innocent teacher would be fired just because an insecure or vindictive Principal wants the teacher gone due to ageism, race, religion, or advocacy.
By the way these Charter Schools are known for their high teacher turnover. That is their dirty little secret that fails to reach the media.
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January 12th, 2009 9:59 pm
MM, Why not try teaching in a regular public school, with a union. Having a few basic rights and a little more power on the job could make a big difference. I would also suggest trying high school. If you survived middle school this long, you’d probably be a good high school teacher, at least in terms of classroom management.
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January 13th, 2009 9:50 pm
Interesting that she was fired from a school that uses “work hard, be nice,” has extended day and summer school, and exists in Brooklyn, the week before KIPP AMP unionizes. Connection?
I really hope they didn’t unionize because of this teacher. All my sympathies go out to her, but it doesn’t sound like she was doing too great a job.
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January 14th, 2009 2:43 pm
“almost never happens at traditional public schools” ….. that’s really just not correct …..
Forced resignations occur frequently in the affluent suburbs. Typically, a new teacher will be told a year before the tenure decision that it is already clear that they will not be granted tenure, and is asked to find work elsewhere. Teachers jump at the chance to transfer rather than be fired. This “churns” the workforce, leaving a core of senior teachers at a school, with a pool of first, second, and third year teachers bouncing from district to district.
….. in New York City, the same game gets played with probationers ….. threatened with a U unless the transfer …. the transfer is equivalent to getting fired …. less frequent, but still common, probationers are denied tenure…. and discontinued…. this happened recently at Bronx Science…. (the teacher ended up in Westchester, where I hope she doesn’t get “churned”) -
January 14th, 2009 6:43 pm
Some people become lawyers, open restaurants, work in a corporate environment, whatever for a few years and they just aren’t that great at what they do, and they get fired and move on to other things. Why are people so worried when it happens to a teacher? I DON’T think MM should go work in a public school–why?? why not try something that she might be better at, something that would make her happier? And sure, some teachers get hassled by principals who are ageist, racist, whatever. But WAY more teachers are mediocre (or worse) and allowed to stay in the system because firing them is too cumbersome to principals who are already overwhelmed by the magnitude of their jobs. I think MM’s situation seems to be in the best interest of her and her students.
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January 15th, 2009 3:48 am
How interesting that some assume MM was a “bad” teacher. The fact that she was asked to change her teaching style may reinforce that assumption.
But is the teacher responsible for student learning? It could be that students are responsible for their own learning. If students have no self motivation nor self reliance then they are the ones who are mediocre (or worse).
Teachers should not have to be “overwhelmed by the magnitude of their jobs” when many parents (and their student children) seem to be underwhelmed by the magnitude of theirs.
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January 19th, 2009 2:00 pm
I didn’t assume MM was bad–she said herself that she wasn’t very effective. I believe her–why would she lie about it? and I think teachers HAVE to be responsible for student learning. It is their job to teach students–if the students don’t learn (for whatever reason), then they’re not doing a great job and they should try something else.
Schooldays, you say that “teachers should not have to be ‘overwhelmed by the magnitude of their jobs’ when many parents (and their student children) seem to be underwhelmed by the magnitude of theirs.” I’m troubled by this–I’m not sure what you mean. Would you say doctors shouldn’t be overwhelmed by the magnitude of their jobs if their patients are underwhelmed by the magnitude of theirs? Would you say that more students with more inspired parents deserve more inspired teachers? I am not sure I’m reading you right
on that–just trying to make sense of it.Definitely there are students in our city schools who are unmotivated and irresponsible. I’ve seen those students really push themselves when they are in the presence of a master teacher. I think they–like all students–deserve to be in the presence of master teachers regularly.
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January 20th, 2009 5:45 am
In the end, students are responsible for their own learning. To decide that it’s the teacher’s fault if a student doesn’t learn negates the necessity of self-reliance and self-motivation in education.
By definition, a master teacher is a cut above the norm; such an individual is not common. It therefore should be assumed that, while it may be desirable for students to have such as their teachers, it is not likely to happen. In the end, the student should be in charge of their own educational progress and the educator to give some direction and depth.
Master students do not need master teachers.
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January 20th, 2009 11:08 am
Schooldays,
We’ll probably have to agree to disagree but I am still working to understand your point of view. I agree that it takes work to be a master teacher, but it takes work to be a good doctor or lawyer or writer too, and when I go to the doctor, I expect that s/he has put that work into his/her job. I would want nothing less for my child in the classroom. And just to clarify, I don’t mean a genius teacher–I mean one who has mastered the skill of teaching.At one point does a child have the responsibility for his/her own learning? Is that true in pre-K? In 3rd grade? In 7th grade? If a 7 year old does not demonstrate that self-reliance and responsibility, do we just declare that s/he does not deserve an education? Do we expect a teacher to be able to control a classroom and provide a quality environment? Do we expect a teacher to know how to present material in a variety of ways to help all students learn? If a teacher just read the information aloud to students in a chaotic classroom, for example, would we say that the teacher has done his/her job and that if students didn’t get it, it is their fault?
I have thought about these questions, and I would certainly say that as students get older, they have a growing responsibility for their own learning, that part of maturing is developing self-reliance. (And I would say good teachers help students to develop self-reliance–it’s a skill that is taught, not something you’re born with.) But I would say that teachers have an active role in inspiring students, in supporting students, and in instructing students effectively. And ultimately, if you’re up in the front of the classroom doing something but your students aren’t learning, I”m not sure you’re teaching.
And as for MM, again, I’m just taking her word for it when she says she wasn’t effective.
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January 20th, 2009 6:12 pm
Please let’s fire ALL of the non-master teachers right this instant and let the market, Joel Klein and Michelle Rhee bring in all the master teachers waiting in the wings.
Tillie, the amount of training and support(in a traditional setting, I would add; there is no TFA) that a doctor receives before treating you is beyond superlatives. If we valued teachers 1/10 of what we do doctors… Beyond that, doctors don’t see 135 patients a day. Seeing the doctor is voluntary; patients are seeking his/her help. We accept the fact that the doctor can’t save EVERYBODY.
If you are standing in front of the room and your students aren’t learning, you might ask yourself “who the hell is forcing me to use this stupid assessment?”
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January 20th, 2009 8:20 pm
Ha–I COMPLETELY agree with your last question, LS! But I would hope that I’d see my students learning and see that the dumb assessment didn’t capture their learning!
Note that I’m not advocating mass firings, and I also agree with your point about the lack of support and development of teachers. But I don’t think the answer is to lower the bar and bemoan the loss of a self-proclaimed mediocre teacher (sorry, MM, if that’s overstating your situation. I didn’t actually read your blog over time).
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January 20th, 2009 8:41 pm
It sounds like MM got a lot of support from folks who have been reading her blog, so I’d take her word for it that she wasn’t effective…in the new and changing environment that she referred to, but had been effective in the past.
I think the “teacher quality” question is complicated by the needs, demands and support offered by a school. I know a teacher who would probably be considered “dazzling” at another school, but didn’t cut the mustard at the school where I work. And another who left my school because she didn’t feel like she was getting supported enough…she ended up at a school that uses curriculum in a very, very different way.
But Tillie I also think you’re right on that just because children aren’t taking responsibility, especially the younger they are, doesn’t mean the teacher isn’t responsible for their learning!
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January 20th, 2009 11:07 pm
Tillie, the attrition rate is high in the public schools. There are schools that are desparate to retain competent teachers. MM mentioned that she had a couple of good years in a junior high. I think she might find that she does pretty well in a public high school, where the kids would be more mature and the administration might be more supportive and the teachers more assertive. Of course, I never read the details of her ups and downs, I’m just basing my suggestions on the fact that she did achieve some success. I can’t emphasize this enough, from my own experience and that of a number of friends - changing environments can make a big difference. I’ve seen people go from “bad” schools to “good” ones and vice-versa and be much more successful and satisfied in the new place.
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January 21st, 2009 4:24 am
First: It is heartening to read such a spirited debate related to what it means to be a teacher. I hope it can go on and develop.
To state once again: I do not believe it is the teacher’s job to educate the student; a student is in charge of their own education.
The teacher’s job is to provide a focus and direction (and perhaps introduce such academic “tools” necessary to move forward) for learning.
The student takes charge of their own development. The more self-reliant the student is, the easier this is to accomplish. The development of self reliance can begin at a very early age. Parents and other care givers do not have to do everything for the child. They can foster self reliance in very simple ways: teach them to clean up their own room, make their own bed (and let it be if it is not done very well), help set the dinner table, help wash the dishes, help with yard work (if they have one), and so forth. Even a 2 or 3 year old can pick up on this. Teach children to buckle their own seat belt, the ins and outs of public transportation, and on and on and on.
The child then gains confidence that they can, in many ways, manage their own existence. They have learned that they are not totally dependent on others. They have a measure of self reliance and they can bring that with them into an educational system.
“No, I don’t need help. I can do it myself.” are words spoken by some even in kindergarten. So a teacher can give an assignment, present some general direction, and the student is confronted with the task of accomplishing it.
Then if the student says “I don’t get it” (and we have all heard this) it is a plea for help to work their way through something that they cannot manage for themselves, rather than a challenge to the teacher: “I don’t get it and it is your fault.”
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January 21st, 2009 6:24 pm
Schooldays,
I agree that it’s an important topic to debate–it’s a big issue as schools and teachers are asked to do more and more. I still think that at the heart, we have a philosophical difference. I think teachers (and I count myself among the ranks) need to do more than present material (and focus and direction) to be considered to be successful.
But I have some more pragmatic questions. First, what does bad teaching look like and how does one measure success in teaching? Is outcome irrelevant in measuring success? In other words, if the teacher “taught” but none of the students learned, is it possible to say that teacher is successful?
And I don’t disagree that students *should* take charge of their own learning. But what if they don’t? Do we just disregard those students in our classroom and in our school and in our society? I agree that parents *should* foster good habits, but what if they don’t? In other words, if you walk in to teach your kindergarten class and ChildX is neither motivated nor self-reliant, does that mean you’re excused from moving him academically from where he is to the next level? And if so, who does help ChildX if his parent cannot or does not? What happens to that kid if no teacher is responsible for teaching him the things he should have come in being able to do?
If we are only responsible for teaching students who are excited and ready to learn, that leaves a lot of students who no one is responsible for teaching.
It’s not a black and white issue for me because I see your side too–teachers are asked to do more and more and the students we teach, especially in poverty-stricken neighborhoods, sometimes come woefully unready to learn. But I don’t think the answer is to say that teachers don’t have to be responsible for them. I think part of the answer is to pay teachers more, train them more, give them smaller loads, give them access to more resources, etc. But ultimately, if you’re not moving your students academically forward, then what’s the point of being in the classroom and picking up that (tiny) check at the end of the week?
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January 21st, 2009 9:02 pm
” I do not believe it is the teacher’s job to educate the student; a student is in charge of their own education.” Well then I would suggest that each student be given the salary of the teacher who has no job. Imagine a five year old making a beginning teacher’s salary?
You could solve the unemployment issue quickly. Parents who have been laid off can just have more kids to send to school to get paid. And, for each year the student does the job, s/he gets the commensurate increase in salary as negotiated by the teachers union. By 12th grade the child may have enough in cash to attend college. Delightful! -
January 21st, 2009 10:15 pm
OK, everybody calm down. It seems to me that Schooldays is talking about high school kids - that’s his or her experience, after all, from what I can tell from the blog link.
Would any of us disagree that high school students are, by and large, responsible for their own learning? Wouldn’t we all agree that the teacher’s proper role in high school is either repository of information to be transmitted or Socrates to the students’ Plato?
Schooldays, if you are talking about early childhood, then I think we have a problem…
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January 22nd, 2009 5:07 am
Tillie:
We all know the multiplicity of problems many students are burdened with and then find their way into our classrooms. But it does not necessarily follow that teachers should be designated the ones that have to deal with these problems. Teachers are not trained child psychologists nor social workers nor should they be. They should not have to work through these problems with students in order to get to the point where learning can begin. While it may be convenient (and cheap) for a society to say: “Since all of these children are in one place and at one time (schools), let them handle it (whatever the problem(s) happens to be).”, it is inappropriate to saddle a learning environment (learning community) with issues better handled by trained experts.
On a minor issue (compared to the huge problems American teachers face) a BBC Radio 2 program discussed the question “Should teachers teach students how to cook?” A nutritionist said that since parents either couldn’t or wouldn’t teach their children cooking skills, schools should take on the task. The interviewer replied: “Any teacher listening to this would be in despair.”
Few countries in the world ask teachers to do things better handled by others. In this country we end up asking (demanding?) teachers do too many things not related to classroom instruction.
Ms. McHugh:
In saying that students are responsible for their own learning I am not implying that they should be self taught. Teachers provide direction and focus to a child’s educational development. Teachers also provide tools to assist in the learning process. They promote a learning environment.
But if a teacher can do all of the above (no easy task) then if a student still does not “learn” or make any educational progress, then one should not assume that it is the teacher’s fault. The student, in the end, must take responsibility for their own learning.
An example:
I say to my class: “President Obama made a factual error during his Inaugural Address when he said: ‘Forty-four Americans have now taken the presidential oath.’, when, in fact, forty-three have. Your assignment, for tomorrow, is to explain why, if President Obama is the 44th President, only forty-three persons have taken the presidential oath.”
My task as a teacher is to:
1. Present a problem wherein the student is given a chance to exercise some independent thought.
2. Insure that each member of the class has access to a library or a computer and knows how to use library facilities or knows how to use a computer and a search engine, or both.
3. Be prepared to answer any questions related to the assignment so it is clear in their minds what they have to do.
4. Given them sufficient time to do the assignment.The rest is up to them. And then maybe we can discuss how they went about answering the question and why President Obama would make such a factual error. I would speculate that he knew what he said was in error.
KitchenSink:
The above assignment could probably be given in a 6th grade classroom.
Thanks for your comments and I appreciate your looking at my website. I would appreciate any comments or contributions you would care to make.
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January 22nd, 2009 1:54 pm
Schooldays,
It’s easy to repeatedly say that teachers shouldn’t be responsible for motivating students and that students should be self-reliant, but you still haven’t answered what happens if they aren’t. And I’m not talking about one or two students, but what happens when you have almost an entire classroom of students who are behind in their academics, who don’t think of themselves as capable of academic success, who act out in all sorts of ways to disrupt education, and who are resistant to learning. It’s easy to say that they shouldn’t be like that and that their parents should have done something different, but we both know there are classrooms just like I’ve described. What do you do then? Do you just proceed to “teach” without regard to whether they are learning? Do you write them off because they cannot do what you think they ought to do? What do you do with an unmotivated student?I appreciate your point with the BBC anecdote, which does seem silly. But you say that “teachers do too many things not related to classroom instruction.” Motivating students is clearly related to instruction. Supporting students who are notably NOT self-reliant and helping said students develop that self-reliance–these are things that are integrally related to instruction. In fact, instruction is irrelevant if they’re not happening.
And that’s my bottom line: there are many things that should be happening outside of school and they’re not. Inside school, students should be learning. If they are not learning, then the teaching should be changed so that they do learn. It’s not enough just to say we taught and they didn’t learn. The consequence for our society is huge.
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January 22nd, 2009 1:58 pm
Oh, and by the way, Kitchen Sink, I do agree that HS students should be responsible, but having worked most of my time in HS, I would say that is not true either. We have to teach the students in front of us, not the students we think they should be. I think the challenge is to find a way to help make students feel responsible for their own work if they are not already there.
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January 22nd, 2009 5:00 pm
Fair enough - I’m 100% with you, Tillie.
I come from an immigrant family, and I always learned from my parents that education is the ‘great leveller.’ I could direct my own future if I had a strong education. Not every kid is getting that message at home.
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January 22nd, 2009 5:01 pm
And, I should add, many are getting that message at home but still don’t buy in. It’s incumbent upon the school to PARTNER with the family to motivate the child.
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January 22nd, 2009 6:32 pm
There is a lot to respond to here but I just wanted to add this, in case other people were wondering, the answer to Schooldays’ question about Obama’s “error” in his inaugural address.
Here’s the answer to both his question and the follow-up, why did Obama make the mistake?, via the Associated Press (http://tinyurl.com/dmbnc7):
In addition, Meena Bose, chairwoman of the Center for the Study of the American Presidency at Hofstra University, said Obama erred in his inaugural address when he said 44 Americans have been sworn in as president. She said the number is actually 43, because Grover Cleveland served two nonconsecutive terms - making Cleveland the 22nd and 24th president.
Jen Psaki, a spokeswoman for the Obama White House, didn’t deny the mistake: “Since he’s the 44th president, we thought it would be less confusing to overlook the historical footnote and use 44.”
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January 23rd, 2009 3:29 am
I am not denying that there are entire classrooms full of students causing problems. Ask MM. I do not believe it is the task of the teacher to have to work through all of the varied problems (social and psychological) in order to get to the job they are trained and paid to do.
Again: society should not dump these problems on the shoulders of educators just because it is convenient and cheap(er) and then have these same teachers go through a series of PDs to bring them up to standard so they are “adequate” to handle these problems.
See “The Latest Doomed Pedagogical Fad: 21st-Century Skills” in the Washington Post.
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January 23rd, 2009 3:48 am
On the Obama question:
Ms. Green did what most people would have done (myself included) and go on-line and look for comments on the question.
But that would be inappropriate as a class assignment because, once again, it is allowing someone to tell the student the answer instead of the students figuring it out for themselves (go on-line or to the library and get a list of U.S. presidents and read the names).
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January 23rd, 2009 6:53 pm
It’s an old comment, but since it’s on Chalk it Up, so I’m going to have to respond to Tillie’s assertion that principals don’t go after bad teachers because the big, bad union makes it too hard for them (apologies for the sarcasm). Here’s my suggestion to anyone who agrees: Next time your principal tells a lie, violates the contract, breaks a promise, fails to follow enforce a disciplinary policy, or pressures teachers to pass students who deserve to fail, point it out in a faculty meeting and make clear your displeasure. If the issue is a contract violation, be sure to file a grievance. Then report back to this blog whether or not your principal is too overwhelmed by his or her responsibilities to give you an unsatisfactory observation or put letters in your file. Also let us know whether or not any of the weak teachers in your school are receiving the same treatment. .
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February 1st, 2010 9:41 am
When I came to NYC at 10 years old, I had really good tutoring in english, one on one at public school. But otherwise the school was like a prison. and the whole system sucked, kids attacked me with polish jokes and violence, and teachers treated me like it was partly my fault. In majority teachers in NYC lack culture and sophistication. After 3 years I was sent to boarding school in MASS, and there the 1st reading in English class was Aristophanes, in 7th grade. In contrast public schools offered bland and childish literature that even I could recognize the difference at that age. I knew then I wanted college level learning not public school lusterless and cultureless childish learning. NYC teachers, not all but mostly, are just boorish individuals who go out binge drinking and can not transfer learning etiquette or culture to anyone, and kids are intuitively smart and know they want to have Cambridge treatment not horribly cultureless teachers who can only make them more stupid. I mean most teachers are just run of the mill people who do not have a clue about renaissance thinking, and culture, and this is a shame for the kids because, football and pop culture the kids know sufficiently well enough, that they do not want or need more in school. It just reinforces their sense that school is good for nothing and they know it all already. Kids should have mandatory activities until 6pm and 2 specific study times after school, like after lunch once and after dinner. They should also have children’s public arts works programs for drawing and the plastic arts to display and beautify public spaces, just like what was done in the renaissance to create a renaissance. IT is a historical fact that the plastic arts and design are the most important factors in changing our world culturally and to create a pretty environment for all. Leonardo and Michaelangelo are examples of renaissance culture embracing children’s art and design. The cubists and the bauhaus created the foundation for our modern world before science or anything else did. These aspects of the power of art have been ignored and supplanted by science and math which are dry and inhuman subjects to most people. Public art by children with supervision can be easily implemented for free practically and beautify our communities to create a renaissance as well as improve the economy by inspiration and the energy of the nations youth. Art and design is dead in this country, and the museums or advertising institutions are killing creativity. As well as politicians who never mention the nations most important source of creativity and inspiration.
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February 1st, 2010 10:57 am
Pawel, some of my claps for you.
Without being sarcastic, I do understand your point. Nevertheless, with your preparatory education and your above the average perception of what true schools ought to be like, you do not take into account what makes a schools is not just teachers, but entire communities at large.
To simplistically believe that a set of teachers can deal with students who have not had parenting and clear expectations at home since they began to reason, is something you will get from the minds of Kleinberg and all other wanna be socially responsible politicians that preach to the public, about the “democratization” of good education and yet, in their back allows profiteers to plunder from public funds to stuff their pockets by the means of so called “charters” and small schools.
Unlike many other countries and societies that are connoisseurs of fine, humanistic education, the US school systems and especially Urban school systems are barely holding together, hobbled by attacks from private interests, a simplistic middle class that gets their opinions from yellow press and still pass judgment of what they do not clearly understand.
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